Issues with pause in back stroke

ENGLISH! · Jul 24, 2013

BeiberLvr said:
Yes, but with enough practice, nothing is mechanical. Take this video for example. You don't have to watch the whole thing, but a few things are very clear.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIqY_8XeyfE

He has pretty much the same rhythm and stroke mechanics on every shot. A few very short and fast warm up strokes. A slight pause at the CB. Smooth backswing with a slight pause lasting anywhere from 1 to 2 seconds.

The reason I bring up this video is that no doubt he has practiced this over and over again, so now even though it appears mechanical, it's not. It's simply a part of his subconscious and he doesn't think about how many warm up strokes, or how long he pauses. It just happens.

Some pros pause, and some don't. Some drop their elbow, and some don't. There are numerous other differences. The one thing they all have in common is a consistent rhythm that is suited to their style of play.

It's my belief that the best (maybe not the only) way to achieve this level of consistency is to be consciously aware of what you're doing during practice sessions and to focus on the positives.

A great way to find consistency is to record yourself playing multiple racks of 15 balls in any order. Watch it back, and focus not just on the racks you do well on, but the individual shots as well. Through proper observation a player can easily pick up on a solid tempo. Then they might try to practice a wide variety of shots and positional play while focusing diligently on maintaining that consistency. Over a period of time it will no longer require such conscious effort.

I'm sure I could say more, but I feel like I've rambled enough.

I watched the first 4 shots & 1, 2, & 3 were all different. Yes he has a long pause on some shots like the first & fourth but the 2nd. & 3rd. were different. That is a bit of what I mean. Even he is allowing the pause to vary. There are varying amounts of being mechanical. I would say that he is mechanical compared to Efrin, Busty, Earl, etc. That does not mean that one can not shoot well or be successful. It's just a different approach & when one is using contrived mechanics it usually takes much practice as you have eluded to get those engrained but since they are not of a natural nature they must also be maintained or much 'rust' can appear on the mechanical mechanism.

As always, it is to each his own. Once one has made their own determination they have to own it as best that they can.

Shoot Well & Best Wishes & Regards,
Rick

Ratta · Jul 24, 2013

Good example beiberLvr

There are several good examples to watch this *pause at the back*. Niels is perfect one. Buddy has one, too.
But not everyone is able to use this very extended pause at the end. Here you have to find *your rythm and timing*.

I just ran through older vids from students from the past 2-3 years. And each of the 8 guys i ran through had the same problem-- they had a great problem with body movement- and furthermore to miss the shot also because they had a much too fast backswing.
Means: They had the problem with the transition from the back motion to the forward motion. And here you can work systematically (on this issue) while working on slowing down the backswing including the back-pause.

If you have someone who clearly a problem with exact this issue, it needs (from my expirience) 2-3 weeks to see the first results (positive results).
As usualy: the student needs the willing to work on this-many are just too fast too bored to do kind of boring exersizes to fix this. Furthermore many poolplayers (especially those "i know it all" and "yes, but..." guys* ) think they would play worse than before. If you work on fixing issues with stroke/alignement/stance you will always make a step backwards-- but in my opinion after a few time you ll earn a big benefit (for a life time).

I prefer to take it positive, if a student has to work on this problem- because if you re working on this problem systematically you can work simultanously on building a repeatable PSR including eye-pattern. So you can kill several enemies at once.

back to the main topic:
The time amount is not important-- some have just half a second of a back pause-- others have about 2-3 seconds (which feels neverending to many humans, lol).

but at least it s just about the transition from back to forward motion. To explain the player, that it doesn t help to *accelerate* backwards-this ruins the complete stroke.

"Slow down your backswing" was the most helpful advice i ever received from the great Jerry Briesath. Could still hug him nonstop for this ^^

a smooth stroke to everyone,
never give up

Ingo

ENGLISH! · Jul 25, 2013

Ratta said:
Good example beiberLvr

There are several good examples to watch this *pause at the back*. Niels is perfect one. Buddy has one, too.
But not everyone is able to use this very extended pause at the end. Here you have to find *your rythm and timing*.

I just ran through older vids from students from the past 2-3 years. And each of the 8 guys i ran through had the same problem-- they had a great problem with body movement- and furthermore to miss the shot also because they had a much too fast backswing.
Means: They had the problem with the transition from the back motion to the forward motion. And here you can work systematically (on this issue) while working on slowing down the backswing including the back-pause.

If you have someone who clearly a problem with exact this issue, it needs (from my expirience) 2-3 weeks to see the first results (positive results).
As usualy: the student needs the willing to work on this-many are just too fast too bored to do kind of boring exersizes to fix this. Furthermore many poolplayers (especially those "i know it all" and "yes, but..." guys* ) think they would play worse than before. If you work on fixing issues with stroke/alignement/stance you will always make a step backwards-- but in my opinion after a few time you ll earn a big benefit (for a life time).

I prefer to take it positive, if a student has to work on this problem- because if you re working on this problem systematically you can work simultanously on building a repeatable PSR including eye-pattern. So you can kill several enemies at once.

back to the main topic:
The time amount is not important-- some have just half a second of a back pause-- others have about 2-3 seconds (which feels neverending to many humans, lol).

but at least it s just about the transition from back to forward motion. To explain the player, that it doesn t help to *accelerate* backwards-this ruins the complete stroke.

"Slow down your backswing" was the most helpful advice i ever received from the great Jerry Briesath. Could still hug him nonstop for this ^^

a smooth stroke to everyone,
never give up

Ingo

Ingo,

I agree with you that it is not about the time length of a back stroke pause. I don't even like calling it a pause because it can be so small that you may not even be able to see it or even actually feel it. It is about the tempo & rythm that allows for timing of the hit. A quick backstroke is not good even if one had a lengthy pause as pulling back quick could result in being off line at the pause. A slower back stroke can be good even if there is almost no pause with a quick change of direction as long as it is smooth & not jerky.

Regards & Best Wishes,
Rick

One Pocket John · Jul 25, 2013

The pause of the back swing is a natural movement and is unique to each individual.

When I say natural I mean, the triceps pull the cue back, the lower bicep moves the cue forward. There is a time period that must be allowed for this transition to happen. For some watching a player this action may seem very long for others very short.

The action is more related to rhythm/timing for each individual. Don't force the pause.....let the pause happen on its own.

Here is a YT that will help anyone to exercise their lower bicep action and control. Do it a couple of thousand times and you will get the idea.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGTabuqWIZc

Have fun :wink:

John

ENGLISH! · Jul 25, 2013

One Pocket John said:
The pause of the back swing is a natural movement and is unique to each individual.

When I say natural I mean, the triceps pull the cue back, the lower bicep moves the cue forward. There is a time period that must be allowed for this transition to happen. For some watching a player this action may seem very long for others very short.

The action is more related to rhythm/timing for each individual. Don't force the pause.....let the pause happen on its own.

Here is a YT that will help anyone to exercise their lower bicep action and control. Do it a couple of thousand times and you will get the idea.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGTabuqWIZc

Have fun :wink:

John

Hi John,

Good post, especially the bolded statement above & that is what I was trying to say in all of that excess verbage that I've used. I would not only say don't force it as you say but I would say to not even give it a thought as that 'natural pause' that you refer to must happen & it's time frame will be relative to the speed of the movement. So, don't take the cue back in a herky, jerky, manner but take it back 'in rthym'.

Best Regards & Best Wishes,
Rick

BilliardsAbout · Jul 30, 2013

CJ refers to the sensation of a bit of loaded weight in the backstroke that releases down into the shot. It all depends on whether you bring your hand up a bit to finish your backstroke or low and level and pause. Some pros slow down successive practice backstrokes so much it looks like it creates a pause at the conclusion of the final backstroke.

There is more than one way to stroke the cue and win... it's not like Allen Hopkins has a big pause at the end of his backstroke!

CJ Wiley · Jul 30, 2013

The pause makes sure you are finding a solid "backswing slot"

BilliardsAbout said:
CJ refers to the sensation of a bit of loaded weight in the backstroke that releases down into the shot. It all depends on whether you bring your hand up a bit to finish your backstroke or low and level and pause. Some pros slow down successive practice backstrokes so much it looks like it creates a pause at the conclusion of the final backstroke.

There is more than one way to stroke the cue and win... it's not like Allen Hopkins has a big pause at the end of his backstroke!

It's called "The Gathering of the Stoke," and just makes sure you're not using energy to redirect the cue....this gives a slightly better feel for the cue, however, it's not essential.

It's a good thing to do in practice though, even if you don't use it in your regular game. The pause makes sure you are finding a solid "backswing slot"....this is tough to feel if you don't pause at all, and therefore your "slot" may not be ideal for your game. 'The Game is the Teacher'

Issues with pause in back stroke

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One Pocket John

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