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Question for APA players - 02-12-2018, 11:59 AM

Do you hate when people call timeouts while you are shooting? I cant begin to count the number of times our co-captain calls time outs on me and it just completely gets me out of sync and usually ruins my run. Should I tell him to back off?


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02-12-2018, 12:05 PM

You're an APA 3 or 4, right


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02-12-2018, 12:06 PM

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Originally Posted by CGM View Post
Do you hate when people call timeouts while you are shooting? I cant begin to count the number of times our co-captain calls time outs on me and it just completely gets me out of sync and usually ruins my run. Should I tell him to back off?
I had that issue with a captain also. He would many times point out he would want me to play safe. 9 times out of ten that's exactly what I was going to do.

I didn't mind if he called a timeout when I was having trouble deciding what to do. But when I'm moving along and in a grove, it was very irritating. The opposing team couldn't have sharked me any better then my own captain could.

The problem is he may see the table differently then you do. And when I was a 4, he was looking at the table from a 6's point of view. At the time, he could do things with the cue ball that I couldnt do. The captain has to put blinders on and see things from your level. Have a talk about it. I'm sure you can work it out.


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02-12-2018, 12:09 PM

Doesn't bother me at all. I wish the other members of my former teams had the confidence or knowledge to know when to call time out.

The balls aren't going anywhere, an interruption to discuss the situation should not have any impact on whether you can make them or not.
  
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02-12-2018, 12:17 PM

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Originally Posted by skip100 View Post
Doesn't bother me at all. I wish the other members of my former teams had the confidence or knowledge to know when to call time out.

The balls aren't going anywhere, an interruption to discuss the situation should not have any impact on whether you can make them or not.
Exactly, only a banger hates to be told to stop, take a deep breath and tell him a very good option to try and win the game. I won't even coach anyone lower than a 5 unless they ask. And when they mess up I tell them you should have done this. Then they say why didn't I tell them. Well, cause you got mad last time I told you, as if my suddent interruption for you take a deep breath, and think about a better option is what caused you to miss and not that horrible stroke you have


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02-12-2018, 12:34 PM

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Originally Posted by ChicagoRJ View Post
Exactly, only a banger hates to be told to stop, take a deep breath and tell him a very good option to try and win the game. I won't even coach anyone lower than a 5 unless they ask. And when they mess up I tell them you should have done this. Then they say why didn't I tell them. Well, cause you got mad last time I told you, as if my suddent interruption for you take a deep breath, and think about a better option is what caused you to miss and not that horrible stroke you have
I was never timid about asking for a coach. But there are some people that think they know everything and are not timid in trying to show it. A good coach has to offer advise based on the players experience. Not his own. Before or after the match is the time to train and help a lower player get to the next level.... Not during. This is the problem I had anyway. Many times he did call a time out when im down on a shot, come to the table and say.....'i just wanted to slow you down" or "I just wanted you to think about it". Most of the time it created doubt in my mind, and guess what would happen?


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02-12-2018, 12:45 PM

I definitely dont think I dont have room for improvement, but I just feel like when Im moving around the table fluidly, I shouldnt be stopped. If I seem confused about how I should proceed or seem indecisive, yes, by all means call a timeout and lets discuss it. Nine times out of ten I miss the shot he tells me to take. It just frustrates me.


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02-12-2018, 12:46 PM

I don't mind it. It's still my decision on what to do. But there are times I value another set of eyes. We all run racks differently. Even thought the end result is the same. I call them for my teammates if they look troubled or confused. I won't call one if they are down in position and getting ready to shoot.


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02-12-2018, 01:00 PM

if he's around the same skill level then yeah you might tell him not to interrupt, but if he's a 7 or 9 and you're a 3-5, then you should listen to him
  
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02-12-2018, 01:04 PM

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Originally Posted by longhorns2 View Post
if he's around the same skill level then yeah you might tell him not to interrupt, but if he's a 7 or 9 and you're a 3-5, then you should listen to him
He is only slightly better than me. I have no problem asking his advice, I just dont think stopping me is always warranted.


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02-12-2018, 01:26 PM

As an APA captain Iíve found that some players hate coaching while others are grateful for any assistance they can get. Skill level doesnít matter, itís just the personality of the individual thatís makes the difference.

Iíve learned to tell the difference and let players who donít like talking make their own mistakes.

My opinion is that timeouts are free and it never hurts to listen. Of course itís always the shooters choice. But the ones who hate timeouts seem to be the ones to blame the coaching when they screw it up.
  
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02-12-2018, 01:53 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by pogmothoin View Post
As an APA captain Iíve found that some players hate coaching while others are grateful for any assistance they can get. Skill level doesnít matter, itís just the personality of the individual thatís makes the difference.

Iíve learned to tell the difference and let players who donít like talking make their own mistakes.

My opinion is that timeouts are free and it never hurts to listen. Of course itís always the shooters choice. But the ones who hate timeouts seem to be the ones to blame the coaching when they screw it up.
I am the captain of the team and I totally agree. Some people take coaching well and some hate it. I dont hate it if I ask for it, but I hate to be stopped when its clear I have a plan.


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02-12-2018, 02:07 PM

It really bothers some people, others not so much. I have noticed that while I'm watching
I see things differently than if I'm playing. If someone sees something I don't see, I don't
care if it's our lowliest S/L 2 or our best S/L 7 I want them to let me know. The chances
are that I've seen it and considered it, but sometimes I haven't. I want to know what they
see and why. There are times it's a better option.
When you are focused and your driving through like a tank you may not have considered
everything, another pair of eyes never hurt.
That being said, I'll almost never call a timeout for someone else, but between games or
sometimes during a game I'll call out encouragement, like "you got this" or C'mon, work
it out". It has to be something pretty dire for me to interrupt their game with a time out.
  
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02-12-2018, 02:16 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoRJ View Post
Exactly, only a banger hates to be told to stop, take a deep breath and tell him a very good option to try and win the game. I won't even coach anyone lower than a 5 unless they ask. And when they mess up I tell them you should have done this. Then they say why didn't I tell them. Well, cause you got mad last time I told you, as if my suddent interruption for you take a deep breath, and think about a better option is what caused you to miss and not that horrible stroke you have
I'm not a banger and I hate being interrupted at the table. When I was playing APA 8-ball, five or six years ago, the other 7 on the team would do the same thing. He only did it twice before I told him I would lose my s++t if he did it again. He would do it to the other players as well and I could always tell it threw them off. I Just started playing APA 9-ball again last session after five years off. I personally never stop a shooter from shooting to give a time out. I have already instructed my players that if they feel they need a timeout then they should ask for it. I will tell them what I feel they should have done, if they say "why didn't you tell me?" my response is "why didn't you ask?"

A lot of it matters on the shooter. If a shooter doesn't mind or actually prefers to be stopped in this manner then that is fine for that shooter. If a shooter, regardless of skill level, does not want to be interrupted at the table then their wishes should be respected. The only time I will ever stop a shooter who doesn't like to be interrupted is if they are hooked and I can tell they are pretty much dead in the water the way they are attempting to kick. Other than that I will wait.

Pool is typically an individual sport, there exists a whole different set of dynamics when a team environment is brought into it. I enjoy the feeling of being on an island, just me and the puzzle of the table. It is no one else's puzzle to solve but mine.

I feel that there is a lot to be learned from doing the wrong thing and getting burned for it. It leaves an indelible impression that is hard to forget in the future. Although you can also make the argument that guiding a less experienced shooter on the proper thing to do in a tough circumstance is helpful in teaching them what they should be doing, I don't feel that the impact is as great as learning from your mistakes. The time for teaching is not in the middle of a match. Instruction after the shot, while their opponent shoots, affords you far more opportunity to expound on the ideas that you are trying to relay to them. If you want to fix deficiencies in your teammates games you have plenty of opportunity to do so on the practice table.

I will give advice to anyone who asks for it, regardless of skill level. I learned a long time ago not to offer up advice that is unsolicited, unless I feel the benefit outweighs the typically negative response you will receive.
  
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02-12-2018, 02:36 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by pogmothoin View Post
As an APA captain Iíve found that some players hate coaching while others are grateful for any assistance they can get. Skill level doesnít matter, itís just the personality of the individual thatís makes the difference.

Iíve learned to tell the difference and let players who donít like talking make their own mistakes.

My opinion is that timeouts are free and it never hurts to listen. Of course itís always the shooters choice. But the ones who hate timeouts seem to be the ones to blame the coaching when they screw it up.
I've never had a player blame me for the fact they didn't call a timeout or, on the very rare occasions I have interrupted them, things didn't go completely according to plan. I have noticed that when players are stopped in this manner, they tend to be a little more tentative going forward. Insecurity at the table is never a good thing, regardless of your skill level.

Part of giving advice to another player is knowing what the capabilities of that player are and knowing how to give advice that will fit with what they know how to do. I have seen on many occasions a 7,8 or 9 stop a lower handicap dead in their tracks and then offer advice that was well outside or their actual abilities at that time, it may have been correct, but if it can't be followed then it was incorrect. The reason a player might complain about the advice you gave them is because it may have been outside or their capabilities.

My first session playing was quite a learning experience. I already played above any other 7 in the room, having been playing for 15 years already. At first I gave timeouts as if I were the one shooting. You just shoot this here like that and bing, bang, boom, it's that easy. Only to be met with the blank stare of a 3 who had absolutely no clue how to actually do what I was telling them to do. I would rather have a confident shooter shooting the wrong shot, than a confused shooter who can't actually shoot the "right" shot.

Again, if you want to fix deficiencies in your teammates games you have plenty of opportunity to do so on the practice table, and that's if they actually want the advice.
  
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