Can you use follow on a jump shot?

BRussell

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I find it difficult to avoid draw, and it seems to me impossible to put topspin on a cue ball you're jumping.

Obviously if you jump and then it rolls for a while before striking the object ball, it develops forward roll. But what if the hit is fairly quick after the jump? Is follow - or even just stop - possible? Or are you always backspinning the CB?
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I find it difficult to avoid draw, and it seems to me impossible to put topspin on a cue ball you're jumping.

Obviously if you jump and then it rolls for a while before striking the object ball, it develops forward roll. But what if the hit is fairly quick after the jump? Is follow - or even just stop - possible? Or are you always backspinning the CB?

I don't think it's possible unless you skim past the top half or the object ball. I just don't see the rotation of the cueball doing that, to follow it, you'd have to hit it over the top of the ball since you are jacked up, so any sort of hit behind the top of the cueball will spin it backwards unless it slides off the tip. But then it would not jump and just be pushed into the ball.
 
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Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
I find it difficult to avoid draw, and it seems to me impossible to put topspin on a cue ball you're jumping.

Obviously if you jump and then it rolls for a while before striking the object ball, it develops forward roll. But what if the hit is fairly quick after the jump? Is stop or follow possible?
I think so. You can jack up quite a bit and still hit through the CB above its "internal" center - but you risk trapping the CB under the tip if you try too steep a jump this way.

I find draw to be pretty easy.

pj
chgo
 

ktrepal85

Banned
It's not possible to put follow on a jump shot because you would double hit as the ball jumped into your stick. When you jump a ball you are already hitting it really hard so a center ball hit will have enough velocity to travel about anywhere you want.
 

DJ14.1

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Agreed you can't really put follow on the cueball during a jump shot, but you could follow the object ball on some longer distance jump shots. If the cueball can land and pick up some forward roll before striking the object ball, it will follow a bit.
 

jasonlaus

Rep for Smorg
Silver Member
Agreed you can't really put follow on the cueball during a jump shot, but you could follow the object ball on some longer distance jump shots. If the cueball can land and pick up some forward roll before striking the object ball, it will follow a bit.

I showed somebody a couple days ago, you absolutely can put follow on the cueball. I'm not talking about "roll" either.
are you using a jump cue? If so, I have no idea - I don't use them, but a full cue, absolutely!
 

jhanso18

Broken Lock
Silver Member
You deffinitely can jump follow. Takes practice, just like any other aspect of the game.

Heck, i've even had to jump, and massey the same shot to come out right. creativity is always a good thing right?
 

Neil

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I showed somebody a couple days ago, you absolutely can put follow on the cueball. I'm not talking about "roll" either.
are you using a jump cue? If so, I have no idea - I don't use them, but a full cue, absolutely!

Agreed. Like Pat said, all it is is hitting above the core of the cb at the angle you choose. Can also be done with a jump cue. Much easier to do with a very loose grip so you aren't as likely to trap the cb under the tip.
 

SloMoHolic

When will then be now?
Silver Member
Yes, you can!

I'll add this to the list for the upcoming SloMo video for sure.

In the meantime, you can see a couple of SloMo jumps with follow starting at about 2:38 in this video:
http://youtu.be/dN5_NrkjQj8

I'll try to get maximum follow for the next video - as others have said, there is a limit beyond which the cue traps the cue ball, but mild to moderate follow is definitely possible.

Thanks for the idea!

-Blake
 

terryhanna

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yes, you can!

I'll add this to the list for the upcoming SloMo video for sure.

In the meantime, you can see a couple of SloMo jumps with follow starting at about 2:38 in this video:
http://youtu.be/dN5_NrkjQj8

I'll try to get maximum follow for the next video - as others have said, there is a limit beyond which the cue traps the cue ball, but mild to moderate follow is definitely possible.

Thanks for the idea!

-Blake

Great stuff Blake :thumbup:
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yes, you can!

I'll add this to the list for the upcoming SloMo video for sure.

In the meantime, you can see a couple of SloMo jumps with follow starting at about 2:38 in this video:
http://youtu.be/dN5_NrkjQj8

I'll try to get maximum follow for the next video - as others have said, there is a limit beyond which the cue traps the cue ball, but mild to moderate follow is definitely possible.

Thanks for the idea!

-Blake

Can you get that action with a regular cue vs a jump cue?

And I don't know if those are what you an call a follow shot where there is acceleration of the cueball after contact, it's mostly stun shots the forward momentum of the ball sends it forward from what I can see is happening.

Very nice work on the video, should have looked at the before.
 
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SloMoHolic

When will then be now?
Silver Member
Can you get that action with a regular cue vs a jump cue?

I think so. I'll be shooting all kinds of jump shots with jump cues, LD cues, regular maple cues, and break cues for this next video. Hopefully those shots will help answer this question more concretely.

And I don't know if those are what you an call a follow shot where there is acceleration of the cueball after contact, it's mostly stun shots the forward momentum of the ball sends it forward from what I can see is happening.

I interpreted the OP's question this way: Can you jump a cue ball in such a way that the cue ball has forward spin while it is still in the air after the initial jump? In that case, the answer is definitely yes.

If we're talking about overall cue ball behavior after OB contact, then the answer is a lot more complicated. If the cue ball lands on the cloth before OB contact, it will tend to pick up forward spin. In a couple of the shots in the video linked above, you can see the cue ball in the air with no spin and even with backspin, but after it lands on the cloth, it ends up with forward spin.

In any case, unless you get the distance perfect (i.e. cueball contacts the table and OB at the same time), in most cases, the cue ball will end up going forward of the perceived tangent line. There are a couple of reasons for this:

1. If the cue ball is above the table surface when it contacts the OB, the plane of the tangent line is not parallel to the surface of the table, so the tangent line isn't necessarily perpendicular to the perceived direction of travel of the OB.

2. If the cue ball bounces right before contacting the OB, then the impact with the cloth/slate, and the impact with the OB will BOTH tend to add forward spin to the cue ball.

There are, however, some cases in which the cue ball will pick up reverse spin from the OB collision.

If the cue ball is on the downward approach from its flight when it contacts the OB, then the interaction may add follow or draw to the cue ball. The resultant adjustment to spin depends on actual (3D) direction of the cue ball at the moment of impact in relation to the point of impact on the cue ball (to OB).

By the way, to clarify what I mean by the "tendency" to pick up forward or reverse spin: If the cue ball has reverse spin while in the air, then it lands on the cloth, it will either have less reverse spin, or possibly even switch from reverse spin to forward spin. If you really pay attention to the spin on the airborne cueball in the videos, I think you'll see what I mean. In some shots, the cueball has no spin while airborne, but has forward spin by the time it reaches the object ball.

I'm struggling to explain this in words, but I'm sure PJ or Dr Dave can give us a more precise explanation.

In any case, I would say that most jump shots will end with the cue ball ultimately traveling well ahead of the tangent line. The reason for this is that to get the cue ball to actually draw from a jump shot, the precision of the distance of the jump becomes much more important, since there are more ways for the cue ball to pick up forward spin (or reduce reverse spin) than there are ways for the cue ball to conserve or increase reverse spin. I hope that makes sense... :)

Very nice work on the video, should have looked at the before.

Thanks! These kinds of discussions are very helpful to me in determining exactly what to demonstrate in the videos, so don't hesitate to be direct with me and ask as many questions as you can.

-Blake
 

jasonlaus

Rep for Smorg
Silver Member
Just walked over to the table and put follow, draw, right, and left on the cueball with a Full cue - jump shot, and have done it for 25 + years.

You guys had me thinking I was crazy lol
 

lorider

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
yes it is possible. last jump i made the cue ball followed the object ball right into the same pocket lol. this was with a full cue...jump cues are not allowed in apa.
 
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