New Pool Game - Last Ball

jsp

jsp

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
-Rack all 15 balls, completely randomly. (Yes, a game using all 15 balls!)

-The breaker breaks the balls and keeps control of the table regardless of whether he pockets a ball or not. (Totally gets rid of the luck factor of the break.)

-For the first five shots following the break, the players can pocket any ball to keep control of the table. It doesn't matter how many balls are made on the break, the first five shots following the break can be any ball on the table. (Rewards the bigger breaker.)

-After the five initial shots, the players must shoot the remaining balls in rotation. (The first five shots give you a chance to break up any difficult clusters.)

-For the remaining balls required to be shot in rotation, not hitting the lowest numbered ball first results in a foul. (Still incorporates the safety play of 9-ball.)

-All fouls result in BIH to the incoming player.

-Game is won when the last ball on the table is pocketed. (Hence, "Last Ball" is the name of the game.)

I think this a neat game that focuses on some of the skills needed to play good 8-ball, 14.1, and 9-ball all into one game. By keeping control of the table regardless of whether a ball is pocketed or not, you pretty much eliminate all the luck factor involved with the break. The first 5 shots require strategy and precise position play to break up any clusters that would inhibit running out. And as for the rotation part of the game, you still have all the great characteristics of 9-ball and 10-ball.

What do you guys think? I think I should start my own Last Ball tour. ;)
 
Jude Rosenstock

Jude Rosenstock

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
jsp said:
-Rack all 15 balls, completely randomly. (Yes, a game using all 15 balls!)

-The breaker breaks the balls and keeps control of the table regardless of whether he pockets a ball or not. (Totally gets rid of the luck factor of the break.)

-For the first five shots following the break, the players can pocket any ball to keep control of the table. It doesn't matter how many balls are made on the break, the first five shots following the break can be any ball on the table. (Rewards the bigger breaker.)

-After the five initial shots, the players must shoot the remaining balls in rotation. (The first five shots give you a chance to break up any difficult clusters.)

-For the remaining balls required to be shot in rotation, not hitting the lowest numbered ball first results in a foul. (Still incorporates the safety play of 9-ball.)

-All fouls result in BIH to the incoming player.

-Game is won when the last ball on the table is pocketed. (Hence, "Last Ball" is the name of the game.)

I think this a neat game that focuses on some of the skills needed to play good 8-ball, 14.1, and 9-ball all into one game. By keeping control of the table regardless of whether a ball is pocketed or not, you pretty much eliminate all the luck factor involved with the break. The first 5 shots require strategy and precise position play to break up any clusters that would inhibit running out. And as for the rotation part of the game, you still have all the great characteristics of 9-ball and 10-ball.

What do you guys think? I think I should start my own Last Ball tour. ;)
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I swear I've seen this exact set-up before. If my memory serves correct, Kim Davenport suggested it over 10 years ago but I could be very wrong.
 
jgpool

jgpool

Cue ball draw with this?
Silver Member
Opportunity

smashmouth said:
so it's rotation with 5 open shots?
Click to expand...

I gives you the opportunity to set up your rotation balls with the 5 open shots. Lot's of strategy here, pool at it's best, can I say a chess game on a pool table! :D
 
jsp

jsp

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
smashmouth said:
so it's rotation with 5 open shots?
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Essentially, without the difficult arithmetic. ;)

EDIT: Also, it's obviously more of a run out game than 15-ball rotation, which would make it more audience friendly. I would also make the matches alternate break.
 
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Cuebacca

Cuebacca

________
Silver Member
jsp said:
-The breaker breaks the balls and keeps control of the table regardless of whether he pockets a ball or not. (Totally gets rid of the luck factor of the break.)
Click to expand...

Sounds like a fun game, similar to the Q-Skills Challenge. Have you decided what would happen after a scratch on the break?

EDIT: Oops, I just noticed you said ALL fouls result in BIH to incoming player. But maybe the break is an exception, or else there'd be a tiny luck factor left. ;) :D

LOL, if you wanted to be sympathetic to a scratch on the break, but avoid making it a reward, such as BIH or BIH in the kitchen, you could do as follows: Spot cueball in the jaws of the pocket that it scratched in so that the breaker could still get his fair first inning after the break. Just an idea.
 
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jsp

jsp

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
worldison2 said:
You keeping the 3-safety rule?
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3-safety rule? Do you mean the 3-foul rule?

As for the 3-foul rule, that's a good question. If you incorporate the 3-foul rule, then it's possible to win a game without having to sink the last ball, which would be against the name of the game. So for now, no 3-foul rule. ;)
 
jsp

jsp

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Cuebacca said:
Sounds like a fun game, similar to the Q-Skills Challenge. Have you decided what would happen after a scratch on the break?

EDIT: Oops, I just noticed you said ALL fouls result in BIH to incoming player. But maybe the break is an exception, or else there'd be a tiny luck factor left. ;) :D

LOL, if you wanted to be sympathetic to a scratch on the break, but avoid making it a reward, such as BIH or BIH in the kitchen, you could do as follows: Spot cueball in the jaws of the pocket that it scratched in so that the breaker could still get his fair first inning after the break. Just an idea.
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Hmm, I think scratch on the break should still be a foul and BIH for the incoming player. There should be at least some skill and control used on the break shot, such that you don't have players breaking at 2000% and CBs flying all over the pool room.

If the breaker squats the rock and it gets kicked in by another ball, oh well...you can't eliminate ALL the luck factor in pool. ;)

Another great thing about this game is that it can easily be handicapped. There is nothing magical about the number 5 (as in the number of shots following the break where you can shoot any ball). I arbitrarily chose 5 because I feel it's an appropriate number for professional competition, such that the game remains primarily a run out game without being too easy. I'm guessing on the professional level, running out after the break would be around 50-60% with the number 5.

However, for less skilled players, you can easily increase to a higher number. For example, to keep runouts at around 50-60%, B players can choose to shoot the first 7-8 balls following the break before they have to run the rest in rotation. For C players, they can choose to shoot the first 10-11 balls following the break.

And, you can easily mix and match for gambling purposes. If an A player matches up with a B player, then the A player can get the "first 5" while the B player can get the "first 8".
 
Cuebacca

Cuebacca

________
Silver Member
Cool, I wasn't sure how far you wanted to go with the fair break. Your rule sounds good, and simple.

One comment about the game. Breakers should probably get confirmation from their opponent on how many balls were pocketed on the break. Say you make 3 balls... you'll want to tell your opponent, "3 balls made" and get acknowledgment so that it will be crystal clear when the rotation portion of the rack should begin.

Sounds like a great game and it would work on coin-operated tables too, since you'll never need to spot a ball. Looking forward to trying it sometime.
 
Andrew Manning

Andrew Manning

Aspiring know-it-all
Silver Member
I'm going to try playing the Last Ball ghost next time I'm at the pool hall. I think it could be easier than the 9-ball ghost would be, due to the way you can use the first 5 shots to ensure easy patterns for the rotation part of the rack. Also a lot of room for creativity in how you choose to accomplish that, which appeals to me.

So IF it does turn out to be easier than 9-ball to break and run, which I suspect it might be, should there be some change to make it harder? Or would a really high break and run percentage at the pro level be an okay thing, like the service games won percentage in tennis?

-Andrew
 
Cuebacca

Cuebacca

________
Silver Member
jsp said:
-For the first five shots following the break, the players can pocket any ball to keep control of the table. It doesn't matter how many balls are made on the break, the first five shots following the break can be any ball on the table. (Rewards the bigger breaker.)
Click to expand...

Another question: I had been taking "shots" to mean "balls". Do you mean literally "shots"?
 
jsp

jsp

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Andrew Manning said:
So IF it does turn out to be easier than 9-ball to break and run, which I suspect it might be...
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I don't know how much easier it would be than the 9-ball ghost. I actually think they would be the same difficulty, if anything maybe the last-ball ghost a bit harder.

Assuming you make an average of three balls on the break (which is still pretty high), after your initial five shots (and assuming you don't miss), you still have to run out 7 balls in rotation. But in actually, you're essentially running 8 balls in rotation, since you still have to play position on the first of the 7 balls.

Andrew Manning said:
...should there be some change to make it harder? Or would a really high break and run percentage at the pro level be an okay thing, like the service games won percentage in tennis?
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That's the idea. I truly think pool should be modeled like tennis. The breaker should have an advantage, and alternating breaks should be used such that each player has the opportunity to "hold his break". Stringing racks together in a winner's break format is cool and exciting at times, but when the game gets too easy (as with the WPC TV table games), it gets ridiculous.

I also like the idea of playing multiple short sets, just like in tennis. For example each set would be race to 6, best of three sets. Therefore, a player is allowed to hiccup early on in the match, and not have it completely penalize him the entire match.
 
jsp

jsp

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Cuebacca said:
Another question: I had been taking "shots" to mean "balls". Do you mean literally "shots"?
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Yeah, I thought of that.

If it was literally "shots", then it would motivate the player to make multiple balls for one stroke, which could add interesting dynamics to the intro portion of the game (I'm coining the term "intro" as the part of the game before rotation part :)).

But I think having it this way gets confusing when a player misses during the intro. I think it should just mean "balls". If the breaker makes three balls in the intro and misses, the incoming playing needs to make two balls before the rotation part begins. There should be a side rule that allows multiple balls to be made for the last shot of the intro.

Also, I forgot to clarify that the intro portion should probably be called-shot, while the rotation portion should not be.
 
Andrew Manning

Andrew Manning

Aspiring know-it-all
Silver Member
jsp said:
I don't know how much easier it would be than the 9-ball ghost. I actually think they would be the same difficulty, if anything maybe the last-ball ghost a bit harder.

Assuming you make an average of three balls on the break (which is still pretty high), after your initial five shots (and assuming you don't miss), you still have to run out 7 balls in rotation. But in actually, you're essentially running 8 balls in rotation, since you still have to play position on the first of the 7 balls.
Click to expand...

Ah, but during said 8-ball run, you are less likely to have any problem areas (clusters, balls that don't pass into the nearest pocket), because you would have used your first 4 shots to clear at least most of these. For good (and smart) players, the road through the last 8 balls should be smoothly paved with very few twists, given the open shots at the beginning which should be carefully chosen for this purpose.

Compared to 9-ball where you have to break any clusters and deal with blocked pocketing lanes during the rotation run, this seems like it would be easier to do. But I'm speculating before actually trying it here, so I'll reserve final judgment until I can see how it goes in practice.

-Andrew
 
jsp

jsp

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Bumping up this decade-old thread.

All this talk about the break and rack manipulations reminded me of this idea of a new game I thought of a while back. I still think it's a pretty good idea.
 
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