odd/irregular length playing cue questions

tjlmbklr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Even though I listed Earl, I watched a match of his from MANY years ago, specifically so I could see where he gripped with a normal cue. And you're correct, with a cue as long as he's been using ( though I saw him playing earlier this year and he had a normal length cue again ), the length will dictate the grip being farther down the butt ( but, unless the cue is ridiculously longer, as with Earl, the grip point is only going to be an inch, maybe two farther down the butt, which isn't much ). And, as you said, any added weight to the cue will also change the balance dynamic. However, I wasn't referring to exceptions, but to the "norm". Some players do things TOTALLY different than 99% of every other player, such as Keith's sidearm. That doesn't make it "wrong", per se, but I think Keith would be the first to tell a young kid just learning "Don't copy my sidearm.", Or, perhaps he would... but I doubt it. Fundamentals are, to me, anyway, extremely important in this game. And where to grip the cue is one of those fundamentals. Now, that said, as we have both said and, others as well, what is most comfortable to the player is important as well. Can someone play like God on Acid with strange fundamentals? Sure... but to me, if they had correct fundamentals, they would play just that much better. And for the record, I don't view anything you've said, or Chick, or anyone else, as arguing. We are all merely discussing differing points of view based on experience, conjecture, opinion, etc, etc... which, of course, is the very nature of forums.
Keith's side arm is a weird one for sure. Whenever I'm trying to teach my young nephews how to play pool I always try to tell them that fundamentals are key. But then again there are some crazy guys out there that just do it differently and it works well for them. Just like teaching somebody different stroke Dynamics like going to full swing backwards and pausing. A lot of pro players do not do that, some players only pull back as far as they want dictating the power that they plan on putting into the shot. Some pause, some dont. It's reasons like this why my game is never consistent because I'm constantly always trying something different when I should just stick with one thing and focus on that.

Look at me changing the subject!

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk
 

Michael Andros

tiny balls, GIANT pockets
Silver Member
Keith's side arm is a weird one for sure. Whenever I'm trying to teach my young nephews how to play pool I always try to tell them that fundamentals are key. But then again there are some crazy guys out there that just do it differently and it works well for them. Just like teaching somebody different stroke Dynamics like going to full swing backwards and pausing. A lot of pro players do not do that, some players only pull back as far as they want dictating the power that they plan on putting into the shot. Some pause, some dont. It's reasons like this why my game is never consistent because I'm constantly always trying something different when I should just stick with one thing and focus on that.

Look at me changing the subject!

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

You're not changing the subject, simply expanding on the original.

I'v learned over the ( nearing ) 60 years I've played this stupid game that styles are and have always been fluid but fundamentals never change. So when I hear someone say something about it along the lines of "Oh, it used to be that way, but not anymore." I am immediately suspicious, if not downright dismissive. It depends on the person making the statement as to which one I use and to what degree I react with it, respectively. Someone like Chuck, whose opinion and experience I greatly admire and respect ( not to mention he's more than a little bit funny and I place HUGE value on that ), would fall into the "suspicious" category in regard to fundamentals and that's ok, because even people one respects can say or do things with which one may not like or disagree. Others here, though not large in volume, fall into the "dismiss" category. Everyone has an opinion. And everyone is entitled to it. However, having one doesn't make them right any more than having one makes me right.
 

nine_ball6970

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You're not changing the subject, simply expanding on the original.

I'v learned over the ( nearing ) 60 years I've played this stupid game that styles are and have always been fluid but fundamentals never change. So when I hear someone say something about it along the lines of "Oh, it used to be that way, but not anymore." I am immediately suspicious, if not downright dismissive. It depends on the person making the statement as to which one I use and to what degree I react with it, respectively. Someone like Chuck, whose opinion and experience I greatly admire and respect ( not to mention he's more than a little bit funny and I place HUGE value on that ), would fall into the "suspicious" category in regard to fundamentals and that's ok, because even people one respects can say or do things with which one may not like or disagree. Others here, though not large in volume, fall into the "dismiss" category. Everyone has an opinion. And everyone is entitled to it. However, having one doesn't make them right any more than having one makes me right.

I have long arms and a fairly long bridge. I hold my cue below the wrap because that is where my arm is at 90 degrees at address position. Same is true for most taller players. I heard before that a cue should come to your lip when standing. 58" has always been the norm even though people have gotten taller on average. My hand would be on the wrap if the cue was so 64" but I am not going to use a balance rite or other extension to try it out.
 

Michael Andros

tiny balls, GIANT pockets
Silver Member
I have long arms and a fairly long bridge. I hold my cue below the wrap because that is where my arm is at 90 degrees at address position. Same is true for most taller players. I heard before that a cue should come to your lip when standing. 58" has always been the norm even though people have gotten taller on average. My hand would be on the wrap if the cue was so 64" but I am not going to use a balance rite or other extension to try it out.

I'm 6'4" and my arms are *very* long, My hand is 2 hands behind the balance point and my upper arm is horizontal in relation to the floor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_fF7eWaEbY
 

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
I'm 6'4" and my arms are *very* long, My hand is 2 hands behind the balance point and my upper arm is horizontal in relation to the floor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_fF7eWaEbY

Jim Rempe, on his instructional video with Loree Jon Jones, flat out called this holding of cue based on balance point as hogwash.
Loree even explained women's arms are different than men's.
Corey Deuel holds his Meucci at the buttsleeve.
Mosconi was wrong.

Here's Ralph Souquet shown holding the cue at the bottom of the wrap. He's a tall guy.
Then you have SVB who has a forward hold. And drops his elbow a lot so the tip hits the cue ball right .
 
Last edited:

Michael Andros

tiny balls, GIANT pockets
Silver Member
Just saw this clip. You don't bend low down to your cue?

Not exactly sure what you mean by that but, how I am addressing that shot is how I address any shot. My stance and other basic fundamentals are the same regardless of the shot unless I'm jacked up off the rail or masse-ing.
 

Michael Andros

tiny balls, GIANT pockets
Silver Member
Jim Rempe, on his instructional video with Loree Jon Jones, flat out called this holding of cue based on balance point as hogwash.
Loree even explained women's arms are different than men's.
Corey Deuel holds his Meucci at the buttsleeve.
Mosconi was wrong.


And all those players I listed are wrong, or, again, merely a coincidence they all grip @ 2 hands behind the balance point. Got it, Thanks.

And I suppose I should include Louie Roberts, the world-beaten who told me about it when I was @ 20 or so... he gripped @ 2 hands behind the balance point. But I think ( actually, I'm sure ) this has become the dead horse so I don't see any more reason to beat it.
 
Last edited:

S.Vaskovskyi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Just a suggestion ( and, understood, it's easier said than done when you're used to doing something a specific way, but... ) about cue length. People like cue length for differing reasons but it should *never* be because of arm length. You should *never* grip the cue at the butt end, regardless of length ( presupposing it's at least 57" ). Find the balance of the cue with your extended index finger, then grip it 2 hand widths behind the balance. This holds true regardless if your arms are short or long.

You definitely know better what feels wright for everybody and understand biomechanics and of course you're very successful with let's say power draw when the distance CB - OB 3 or 4 diamonds and more.
 

tjlmbklr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
All this discussion back and forth I'm losing track of who said what.

All I know is if I want to grab my cue (remember, this is a 58" cue with the weight bolt cut way down and a 3" center extension installed making it 61") so the balance feels good and my arm is straight up and down and to have the desired bridge length (8-10"), I need a 61" cue with a similar balance point.

I took some pics in my kitchen, not ideal placemt and stance on our kitchen island but as you can see my balance point is very high up and if I grip 2 grips beyond it and have my back arm perpendicular my bridgenis like 1". Not ideal obviously.

91c236527303e3b887caf08909851175.jpg
bc3877fda827c5d69fce2640fd4a96e2.jpg
3c0ab67203e93615ed406b112bda8025.jpg


Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk
 

tjlmbklr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Are Meucci pro shafts really LD ?
Yes, very low from what I hear. They use a light weight ferrule. You can watch some of Corey Deuel's videos on their website where he tests them but says he doesn't know how they do it but they are LD. And reasonably low price in comparison too and they have up to 31" shafts which is what I want.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk
 

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have dabled in a variety of lengths of cues over the years, 60" (30B/30S), 59" (29B/30S). It was a 30" OB-2 shaft and loved that cue so much. But then 7 years ago I went cold turkey and sold everything. Now I'm back but didn't want to search for another custom lenght cue so I settled on a standard 58" mid range McDermott with a G-Core shaft. Then a league player showed me the Balance Rite and I immediately fell in love with the lenght. I'm not the talllest person but have very long arms and am not fond of gripping right on the very end of the butt of a cue which is what I do with a 58" cue. So I had newsherriffintown make me a 3" Ebony mid cue extension similar to the Balance Rite, but much prettier. This makes my cue an odd 61" which feels right.

So with that long winded explaination I want to buy a good LD shaft and am leaning towards Meucci Pro shaft. They sell the shafts up to 31" long so all I need is a 30" butt. Or should I go the other way around and go 31" butt with a 30" shaft? I feel it will be much easier finding a 30" butt.

Thoughts?

Thanks.

TJ
My recommendation for a 61" cue - which is what I play with - a Mezz MSP (sneaky pete model), upgraded to a low deflection Mezz EXPro 30" shaft, and add a Mezz 2" butt extension. I'm 6'5", and I love mine. You will not regret this purchase, although it may cost you $650 to $700.
 

Michael Andros

tiny balls, GIANT pockets
Silver Member
All this discussion back and forth I'm losing track of who said what.

All I know is if I want to grab my cue (remember, this is a 58" cue with the weight bolt cut way down and a 3" center extension installed making it 61") so the balance feels good and my arm is straight up and down and to have the desired bridge length (8-10"), I need a 61" cue with a similar balance point.

I took some pics in my kitchen, not ideal placemt and stance on our kitchen island but as you can see my balance point is very high up and if I grip 2 grips beyond it and have my back arm perpendicular my bridgenis like 1". Not ideal obviously.

91c236527303e3b887caf08909851175.jpg
bc3877fda827c5d69fce2640fd4a96e2.jpg
3c0ab67203e93615ed406b112bda8025.jpg


Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

The bottom photo, that's close to where your grip should be, but 1 more hand back from the balance point.
 
Last edited:

S.Vaskovskyi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
All this discussion back and forth I'm losing track of who said what.

All I know is if I want to grab my cue (remember, this is a 58" cue with the weight bolt cut way down and a 3" center extension installed making it 61") so the balance feels good and my arm is straight up and down and to have the desired bridge length (8-10"), I need a 61" cue with a similar balance point.

I took some pics in my kitchen, not ideal placemt and stance on our kitchen island but as you can see my balance point is very high up and if I grip 2 grips beyond it and have my back arm perpendicular my bridgenis like 1". Not ideal obviously.

91c236527303e3b887caf08909851175.jpg
bc3877fda827c5d69fce2640fd4a96e2.jpg
3c0ab67203e93615ed406b112bda8025.jpg


Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

Forget that so smart advise about gripping 2 grips below balance point. Your grip should depend on the distance from your bridge hand to the CB. The choice of the set up will depend on your budget and where you look for the set up. Of course on the secondary market it will be easier to find 30" butt so then you have to go for 30" butt 31" shaft. But if you go for the order of Schmelke as it was proposed then I quess you could get equal split.
 

Pete

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Not exactly sure what you mean by that but, how I am addressing that shot is how I address any shot. My stance and other basic fundamentals are the same regardless of the shot unless I'm jacked up off the rail or masse-ing.
Michael,

I was trying to refer to not bringing your chin "all the way down" like a snooker player as an example.

I wasn't referring to your fundamentals. I hope I didn't offend you u, if so sorry...
 

Michael Andros

tiny balls, GIANT pockets
Silver Member
Michael,

I was trying to refer to not bringing your chin "all the way down" like a snooker player as an example.

I wasn't referring to your fundamentals. I hope I didn't offend you u, if so sorry...

Hey Pete. Not at all! I just didn't know what you meant so I replied as if you were referring to my stance. I didn't think you were trying to be anything negative at all.

Everyone learns in a slightly different way. My stance was pretty much set in stone by the time I was 12 or so. And as bad as my back is these days I can't even IMAGINE how bad it would be if I had had my chin touching my cue or even an inch above it!
 

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
Forget that so smart advise about gripping 2 grips below balance point. Your grip should depend on the distance from your bridge hand to the CB. The choice of the set up will depend on your budget and where you look for the set up. Of course on the secondary market it will be easier to find 30" butt so then you have to go for 30" butt 31" shaft. But if you go for the order of Schmelke as it was proposed then I quess you could get equal split.
Agreed.
Those with forward hold have to drop the elbow or let the cue slide to make tip hit the cue ball right.
 
Top