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mikemosconi
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06-09-2019, 03:11 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JesPiddlin View Post
Is it really the joint that makes the difference?

Actually, the shaft makes all the difference in the world, when it comes to what action you get. The taper is very important. The pro taper allows more flexibility than the graduated taper or the straight taper.

Then, there's the tip. The softer tip allows more grab for English, but it also mushrooms more easily. The harder tip works best if you don't need English and need a more powerful shot... for instance, on the break.

The ferrule does make a difference, but the shaft taper and the tip are probably the most overlooked items, when it comes to figuring out what hits best. Everyone always assumes it is the joint.

For the record, I like my wood-to-wood joint best, with a close run by the phenolic collars. I used to think i needed a stainless steel or brass collar on my cues, but my whole game got better with the others. I also noticed that the shafts with the metal collars were more straight or graduated tapers, not pro tapers. The cues with the joints I seem to like best also have pro tapers on them. I now use the thicker taper cues I have for break cues. I have a WB Water Buffalo tip put on them and away I go! I don't have to put near the effort into my break, but I make at least one ball on most breaks, now.
After many, many years of playing with ALL the combinations, I have to agree very, very much with this person's assessment of how and why cues play a certain way. But I might add that, in the end, it is the person behind the cue- the STROKE that that person can bring to the cue that REALLY is the final determining factor- 25% the arrow and 75% the archer. A very good quality maple shaft with a pro taper- same diameter from the tip to the first 14 inches down the shaft, an ivory ferrule, a quality soft layered tip will give you all the cue ball control you need regardless of the joint. Couple that with a quality stroke that takes the tip all the way through the cue ball on delivery and stay down on that shot at least until cue ball contact with the object ball and all you need after that is quality practice and quality competitive experience to play top notch pool

Last edited by mikemosconi; 06-09-2019 at 03:22 AM.
  
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mikemosconi
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06-09-2019, 03:23 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JesPiddlin View Post
Is it really the joint that makes the difference?

Actually, the shaft makes all the difference in the world, when it comes to what action you get. The taper is very important. The pro taper allows more flexibility than the graduated taper or the straight taper.

Then, there's the tip. The softer tip allows more grab for English, but it also mushrooms more easily. The harder tip works best if you don't need English and need a more powerful shot... for instance, on the break.

The ferrule does make a difference, but the shaft taper and the tip are probably the most overlooked items, when it comes to figuring out what hits best. Everyone always assumes it is the joint.

For the record, I like my wood-to-wood joint best, with a close run by the phenolic collars. I used to think i needed a stainless steel or brass collar on my cues, but my whole game got better with the others. I also noticed that the shafts with the metal collars were more straight or graduated tapers, not pro tapers. The cues with the joints I seem to like best also have pro tapers on them. I now use the thicker taper cues I have for break cues. I have a WB Water Buffalo tip put on them and away I go! I don't have to put near the effort into my break, but I make at least one ball on most breaks, now.
After many, many years of playing with ALL the combinations, I have to agree very, very much with this person's assessment of how and why cues play a certain way.
  
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Sealegs50
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06-09-2019, 05:38 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by garczar View Post
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!ms...c/QlwmU169TToJ Very few players are able to tell what kind of joint is in a cue.
<30% positive result is below random guessing.
  
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06-09-2019, 05:50 AM

As far as control energy transfer goes, I can’t tell the difference.

SS collars definitely kill the vibration of a cue after impact, which some may perceive as a more “solid” hit. To me it feels muted.

I prefer flat faced, wood to wood collars and a Wrapless butt, because I like to hear the tone of the cue and feel the vibration. “Feedback”

It’s all preference.
  
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NathanDetroit
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06-09-2019, 12:15 PM

No one here mentioned the venerable Schmelke brass joint. I like it as I like a more forward balance.
  
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06-10-2019, 09:09 AM

The best feeling cue I ever tried was an inexpensive cue with a wood to wood joint.
It felt different and better than any cue I had tried up until then and likely still is too.
But its joint didn't feel as tight other cues & purely by accident, I stumbled upon ivory.

My first ivory joint cue was piloted and I owned two JW cues with piloted ivory joints.
Then I acquitred a Paul Mottey piloted ivory joint and it really wowed me even more.

I had the opportunity to get a flat faced ivory joint cue by Tim Scruggs and that cue
changed my opinion on joints & my subsequent cue acquisitions have been flat ivory.

Wood to wood likely feels a little better but I can't bring myself to order or buy another
cue unless the cue's joint was a flat ivory big pin version. Ivory looks the best in any
cue design and it plays wonderfuli and produces a unique, pleasing acoustical sound
when stroking the cue ball. It imparts a softer tactile feel than any steel joint & I'd own
some truly big name cue-makers if CA hadn't enacted its ivory ban on July 1, 2016.

After my buddy gets his new cue due in December that had to be made using Juma,
I'll get to see how it stacks up versus ivory. I've seen positive feedback on the Forum
it's suitable as a substitute for ivory but until I get to try it, ivory iremains my standard.

Matt B.

p.s. And I know the sound produced is attributable to the ferrules which are ivory too.
Attached Images
 


"My Pool Cues"

*Bob Owen Custom- Level 8 (s/d 4-24-16) - Flat Ivory Joint
*J. Rauenzahn Custom - Level 6 (s/d 5-4-16) - Flat Ivory Joint

*J. Rauenzahn Custom - Level 8 (s/d 2-23-15) - Flat Ivory Joint
*Ed Prewitt Custom '05 - Level 8 - Flat Ivory Joint
*Bob Owen Custom - Level 8 (s/d 5-4-14) - Flat Ivory Joint
*Tim Scruggs Custom (9-6-95) Level 7 - Flat Ivory Joint
*Runde Schon '85 Custom "R" Series (1 of 1)
*Palmer (Original) - '72 (All Cocobolo Wood)

Last edited by Bavafongoul; 06-10-2019 at 09:15 AM. Reason: added photo - my flat faced big pin ivory cue joints
  
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06-10-2019, 10:50 AM

Anyone notice when joints dont line up EXACTLY, they can wreak havoc keeping the cueball on line? Fine touch shots definitely suffer.This is happening to me on my mezz wavy, also happened on my sleeved wood meucci. Dont know if this happens on ss much but i dont find i can feel as much
  
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06-10-2019, 05:24 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by rickyaifd View Post
Does a wood to wood joint refer to a joint pin that screws directly into a wood threaded shaft, or does the shaft at least have thread Guides of metal
How did you dig up a 12 year old thread to ask this? Should have been a ton of cue thread pictures to find.

Wood to wood is pretty much always large pin into a wood hole in the shaft, no metal threads. Never seen anything else called wood to wood joint.

In fact, I can't think of any big pin joint type that had a metal shaft insert 3/8x10 or a radial.


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06-11-2019, 06:21 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by hang-the-9 View Post
How did you dig up a 12 year old thread to ask this? Should have been a ton of cue thread pictures to find.

Wood to wood is pretty much always large pin into a wood hole in the shaft, no metal threads. Never seen anything else called wood to wood joint.

In fact, I can't think of any big pin joint type that had a metal shaft insert 3/8x10 or a radial.
Seen Radials into a phenolic insert. Stout joints.
  
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hang-the-9
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06-11-2019, 06:23 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by garczar View Post
Seen Radials into a phenolic insert. Stout joints.
One of my shafts that was re-tapped for a different thread was done with a plastic insert. Never seen a metal one though for a large pin.


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06-11-2019, 06:38 AM

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Originally Posted by hang-the-9 View Post
One of my shafts that was re-tapped for a different thread was done with a plastic insert. Never seen a metal one though for a large pin.
Me neither. synthetic only.
  
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