10-Ball Rules: Calling safe & making a ball?

[Flip_dat_Quarta]

10-ball call safe, call shot rules question:

Can you call safe and still intentionally pocket the object ball leaving your opponent hooked?

I'm pretty sure it's legal but it seems like a loop hole in the rules since the rules are based off 9-ball and in 9-ball you can't make a make a ball when playing safe.

In fact, there is no reason to ever call safe because you either call the pocket (unless it's obvious) or it's assumed you are playing safe.

 

[john coloccia]

10-ball call safe, call shot rules question:

Can you call safe and still intentionally pocket the object ball leaving your opponent hooked?

I'm pretty sure it's legal but it seems like a loop hole in the rules since the rules are based off 9-ball and in 9-ball you can't make a make a ball when playing safe.

In fact, there is no reason to ever call safe because you either call the pocket (unless it's obvious) or it's assumed you are playing safe.

http://www.wpa-pool.com/web/index.asp?id=118&pagetype=rules#9.6

Opponent has the option of giving the table back. This is a legal, and common tactic in 14.1, though.

 

[GideonF]

10-Ball Rules: Calling safe & making a ball?

10-ball call safe, call shot rules question:





In fact, there is no reason to ever call safe because you either call the pocket (unless it's obvious) or it's assumed you are playing safe.

John answered your question, but as to this comment, the "call safe" aspect does give you a reason to call a safety - since a missed shot gives the opponent the option to make you shoot again, it needs to be clear that you were playing safe not trying to pocket a ball.



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[pooladdict]

John answered your question, but as to this comment, the "call safe" aspect does give you a reason to call a safety - since a missed shot gives the opponent the option to make you shoot again, it needs to be clear that you were playing safe not trying to pocket a ball.



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Thats not a WPA rule, but an added rule used in some US tournaments and perhaps some gambling matches. IMO it slows down the game, players take even less risk, and also sadly elminates the two-way shots.

 

[john coloccia]

Thats not a WPA rule, but an added rule used in some US tournaments and perhaps some gambling matches. IMO it slows down the game, players take even less risk, and also sadly elminates the two-way shots.

It's in the WPA rules that I linked to, section 9.6. I personally think call safe is stupid the way it's implemented. If you're going to do call safe, the 14.1 safety is much better IMHO. Reminds me of when Mosconi played Fats, and Mosconi insisted on call shot...including the break. After the break, every ball that was pocketed was respotted. I know what he was trying to do, but that was pretty weird.

 

[GideonF]

Thats not a WPA rule, but an added rule used in some US tournaments and perhaps some gambling matches. IMO it slows down the game, players take even less risk, and also sadly elminates the two-way shots.

I agree with all of that, but the OP asked about call shot, call safe.

The rule John quoted is a wpa rule and does apply to the specific example the OP asked about.

My view is that if you are going to play a cal shot rotation game (and I am fine with non-call shot 10b) then you do need this rule. If the 1b is free and the 2 is tied up, it is too easy to just "call safe" (or call a "wrong pocket") on the 1, make it and leave the opponent f'ked.


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[lorider]

10-ball call safe, call shot rules question:

Can you call safe and still intentionally pocket the object ball leaving your opponent hooked?

I'm pretty sure it's legal but it seems like a loop hole in the rules since the rules are based off 9-ball and in 9-ball you can't make a make a ball when playing safe.

In fact, there is no reason to ever call safe because you either call the pocket (unless it's obvious) or it's assumed you are playing safe.

I am not sure if you are referring to leagues or apa rules.

In Napa you can call a shot / safe. Not sure about other leagues or wpa.

 

[tucson9ball]

10-ball call safe, call shot rules question:

Can you call safe and still intentionally pocket the object ball leaving your opponent hooked?

I'm pretty sure it's legal but it seems like a loop hole in the rules since the rules are based off 9-ball and in 9-ball you can't make a make a ball when playing safe.

In fact, there is no reason to ever call safe because you either call the pocket (unless it's obvious) or it's assumed you are playing safe.

To answer your question, sure you can call safe and leave your opponent hooked. BUT!!! He has the option to make you shoot...because you did pocket a ball.

 

[Bob Jewett]

In the case of WPA rules, it is never to the player's advantage to call safe. He is always better off calling the ball most likely to fall even when he is playing a safe. This removes the possibility that his opponent will have the choice of who will shoot next if that called ball goes in. As an example, you might be banking the 3 ball to the other end of the table for a safe, but you see that it might graze the 7 and the 9 and go in the corner. Call the 3 in the corner.

The "safe" call is actually a "no call" call. I suppose it is a sort of courtesy to the referee so he doesn't have to guess whether the player is trying a shot. Similarly at straight pool it is nice to say "safe" even when there is zero chance an object ball is going to go near a pocket and the safe will be obvious after the shot.

Well, maybe there is one situation at WPA 10 ball where it is better to call safe. If your opponent likes to shoot at everything maybe he will never pass the shot back to you even when he can barely hit the ball. But in the absence of stupid opponents, don't call safe.

 

[john coloccia]

Similarly at straight pool it is nice to say "safe" even when there is zero chance an object ball is going to go near a pocket and the safe will be obvious after the shot.

I think we all do it because we all remember that time that we froze the cue ball in a big cluster, and a dead ball we didn't notice went flying into the corner.

Uhm, er, not that that's ever happened to me, of course.

 

[GideonF]

The "safe" call is actually a "no call" call. I suppose it is a sort of courtesy to the referee so he doesn't have to guess whether the player is trying a shot. Similarly at straight pool it is nice to say "safe" even when there is zero chance an object ball is going to go near a pocket and the safe will be obvious after the shot.

What is the origin of the referee calling "safety allowed" that I see in old straight pool matches, as opposed to saying nothing unless a foul is to be called? Has that practice ceased?

 

[AtLarge]

The pro side of the Predator Pro-Am Tour plays 10-Ball by call-shot/call-safe rules. Here is what they say:

• "7. Call Shot/Safety: Call Shotlayers have the option of either calling their shot or calling a safety. Aside from obvious shots, the shooter must specify which ball and which pocket is being called. If a player is shooting a bank, combination or any kind of ambiguous shot, the player must call the shot. If a player calls a shot and misses, the incoming player will have the option to shoot or make his opponent shoot again. No matter how many times a player misses a called shot, failure to pocket that ball legally or wrongfully pocketing the ball in another pocket allows the opposing player the option to shoot or make his opponent shoot again. Call Safety: If a player calls a safety, the incoming player does not have the option to make his opponent shoot again. The only exception is when a player calls safe and pockets a ball. If a player calls safe, legally hits the object ball and thereafter pockets any ball in their safety attempt, the opposing player has the option to shoot or make their opponent shoot again."

American Rotation is also played under call-shot/call-safe rules. "If no foul occurred on the called safety, and an object ball was pocketed, and any object ball remains on the table, then the opponent (the player who did not shoot the safety) has the option of passing the next shot."

 

[GideonF]

I am not sure if you are referring to leagues or apa rules.

In Napa you can call a shot / safe. Not sure about other leagues or wpa.

Is this 10 ball? I've never played in the NAPA league, but the website http://www.napaleagues.com/naparules/index.php?id=572 says:

"9.7 SAFETY SHOT (10-BALL RULE)

Safety shots are not allowed in NAPA 10-ball.

What is a safety shot? For tactical reasons, a shooter may choose to pocket a “called” object ball into it's proper pocket and also discontinue his turn at the table by declaring “safety” in advance.

Refer to Rule 1.9 for further instruction."

Rule 1.9 says:

1.9 CALLING YOUR POCKET (10-BALL RULE)

Shooters are required to call their intended ball and pocket when shooting on every shot with the exception of the break. Calling a pocket is done by either, verbally announcing the designated pocket to the opponent, or any shooter on the opposing team, or by pointing at the pocket with your hand or pool cue. The shooter does not need to call number of cushions, banks, kisses, or caroms. If the shooter pockets the 10-ball in the designated pocket, the game is a win.

Illegally Pocketed Balls:
1.Pocketing a called ball in an unintended pocket
2.An unintended ball pocketed while not legally pocketing the called ball
3.If the 10-ball is illegally pocketed it is spotted. All other illegally pocketed balls remain pocketed

Play Option:

If you illegally pocket any ball, your opponent has the option to:
1.Accept the table as is
2.Require you to shoot again