10-Ball Rules Question
- Thread starter mooseman
- Start date
The Predator tour is call shot. Other tournaments that don't use WPA rules may not be called shot.
IMO, call shot and ten ball on break spots back up are the rules that make for the best pool player winning the majority of the time. It may not be the best for uneducated or short attention span TV viewers.
In all of the bigger tournaments I've seen, it is call shot. A lot of "local" or smaller tournaments, it is not.
Also, the 10 spots in bigger tourneys on the break whereas in others, it counts as long as its not in the bottom two corners.
So I would say you are correct, there are inconsistencies.
These are from playbca.com and they are inconsistant with what I've seen. They state, legal hit with legally pocketed ball is continued shot and 10 ball break counts.
4.3 Break Requirements
1. You begin the break with ball in hand behind the head string. The cue ball must contact the 1-ball before any other ball or cushion or it is a foul. You must either pocket a ball or cause at least four object balls to contact one or more cushions, or it is a foul.
2. Jumped object balls other than the 10-ball are not returned to the table. If the 10-ball is jumped, it is spotted. 47
OFFICIAL RULES OF THE BCA POOL LEAGUE
3. If you legally pocket a ball, you continue to shoot. Your inning ends if you do not pocket a ball or if you foul. If you legally pocket the 10-ball on the break, you win the game. If you foul on the break and pocket the 10-ball, it is spotted.
4.5 Continuing Play
1. After the break (and push-out, if one occurs), play continues as follows:
e. the lowest numbered ball on the table must be the first object ball contacted by the cue ball or it is a foul;
f. if you legally pocket any ball your inning must continue;
g. the 10-ball is spotted if it is illegally pocketed or if it is jumped;
h. other jumped balls and illegally pocketed balls are not returned to the table.
Also, the 10 spots in bigger tourneys on the break whereas in others, it counts as long as its not in the bottom two corners.
So I would say you are correct, there are inconsistencies.
These are from playbca.com and they are inconsistant with what I've seen. They state, legal hit with legally pocketed ball is continued shot and 10 ball break counts.
4.3 Break Requirements
1. You begin the break with ball in hand behind the head string. The cue ball must contact the 1-ball before any other ball or cushion or it is a foul. You must either pocket a ball or cause at least four object balls to contact one or more cushions, or it is a foul.
2. Jumped object balls other than the 10-ball are not returned to the table. If the 10-ball is jumped, it is spotted. 47
OFFICIAL RULES OF THE BCA POOL LEAGUE
3. If you legally pocket a ball, you continue to shoot. Your inning ends if you do not pocket a ball or if you foul. If you legally pocket the 10-ball on the break, you win the game. If you foul on the break and pocket the 10-ball, it is spotted.
4.5 Continuing Play
1. After the break (and push-out, if one occurs), play continues as follows:
e. the lowest numbered ball on the table must be the first object ball contacted by the cue ball or it is a foul;
f. if you legally pocket any ball your inning must continue;
g. the 10-ball is spotted if it is illegally pocketed or if it is jumped;
h. other jumped balls and illegally pocketed balls are not returned to the table.
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ronnietherocket
Registered
if you call a safety and then you made a ball what happens?...does your opponet have the choice of taking the shot or returning it to you?
If you call safety and make a ball, the other player has the option to take the shot or give it back. Just as if you call a shot and miss, and leave the other player hooked they can make you shoot again. The option always goes to the incomming player. To make them come to the table you must call safety and not pocket a ball. Otherwise the option goes to the incomming player.
Jerry Forsyth
Well-known member
Here are the official rules for Ten Ball
9. Ten Ball
Ten ball is a call shot game played with ten object balls numbered one through ten and the cue ball. The
balls are played in ascending numerical order
cue ball in order to establish a legal hit
and the player continues with his inning.
shot where no ball may be called.
9.1 Determining the Break
The player who wins the lag chooses who will break the first rack. (
of Play.) The standard format is to alternate the break, but see Regulation 15, Subsequent Break Shots.
9.2 Ten Ball Rack
The object balls are racked as tightly as possible in a triangular shape, with the one ball at the apex of
the triangle and on the foot spot and the ten ball in the middle of the triangle. The other balls will be
placed in the triangle without purposeful or intentional pattern. (
Balls.)
9.3 Legal Break Shot
The following rules apply to the break shot:
(a) the cue ball begins in hand behind the head string; and
(b) if no ball is pocketed, at least four object balls must be driven to one or
foul. (See Regulation 17, Open Break Requirements.
9.4 Second Shot of the Rack –
If no foul is committed on the break shot, the shooter may choose
must make his intention known to the referee, and then rules
Contact are suspended for the shot. If no foul is committed on a push out, the other player chooses who
will shoot next. The ten ball pocketed during a Push Out is spotted, without penalty.
and the lowest numbered ball must be
hit. If the ten ball is pocketed on a legal break shot, it will be spotted
Only one ball may be called on each shot,
(See 9.5 Call Shots & Pocketing Balls).
See 1.2 Lagging to Determine Order
) e See Regulation 4, Racking / Tapping of
Ten Ball Rack
more rails, or the shot is a
Requirements.)
Push Out
to play a “push out” as his shot. He
6.2 Wrong Ball First and
contacted by the
except on the break
gging 6.3 No Rail after
9.5 Call Shots & Pocketing Balls
Whenever the shooter is attempting to pocket a ball (except the break) he is required to call shots, the
intended ball and pocket must be indicated for each shot if they are not obvious. Details of the shot, such
as cushions struck or other balls contacted or pocketed are irrelevant.
For a called shot to count, the referee must be satisfied that the intended shot was made, so if there is
any chance of confusion, e.g. with bank, combination and similar shots, the shooter should indicate the
ball and pocket. If the referee or opponent is unsure of the shot to be played, he may ask for a call.
9.6 Safety
The shooter, after the break at anytime may call “safety” which permits him to make contact with the
legal object ball without pocketing a ball and end his inning. However, if the shooter pockets the legal
object ball the incoming player has the option to play the shot as left, or hand it back to his opponent.
(See 9.7 Wrongfully Pocketed Balls which also applies during a safety.)
9.7 Wrongfully Pocketed Balls
If a player misses his intended ball and pocket, and either makes the nominated ball in the wrong pocket
or pockets another ball, his inning has finished and the incoming player has the option to take the shot
as is, or hand it back to his opponent.
9.8 Continuing Play
If the shooter legally pockets a called/nominated ball on a shot (except a push out, see 2.4 Second Shot
of the Rack – Push Out), any additional balls pocketed remain pocketed (except the ten ball; see 9.9
Spotting Balls), and he continues at the table for the next shot. If he legally pockets the called ten ball
on any shot (except a push out), he wins the rack. If the shooter fails to pocket the called ball or fouls,
play passes to the other player, and if no foul was committed, the incoming player must play the
cue ball from the position left by the other player.
9.9 Spotting Balls
If the ten ball is pocketed on a foul, a push out or during the break shot, or without calling it, or
accidentally in the wrong pocket, or driven off the table, it is spotted. (See 1.4 Spotting Balls.) No other
object ball is ever spotted.
9.10 Standard Fouls
If the shooter commits a standard foul, play passes to his opponent. The cue ball is in hand, and the
incoming player may place it anywhere on the playing surface. (See 1.5 Cue Ball in Hand)
The following are standard fouls at ten ball:
6.1 Cue Ball Scratch or off the Table
6.2 Wrong Ball First The first object ball contacted by the cue ball on each shot must be the lowestnumbered
ball remaining on the table.
6.3 No Rail after Contact
6.4 No Foot on Floor
6.5 Ball Driven off the Table The only jumped object ball that is spotted is the ten.
6.6 Touched Ball
6.7 Double Hit / Frozen Balls
6.8 Push Shot
6.9 Balls Still Moving
6.10 Bad Cue Ball Placement
6.12 Cue Stick on the Table
6.13 Playing out of Turn
6.15 Slow Play top
9.11 Serious Fouls
For 6.14 Three Consecutive Fouls, the penalty is loss of the current rack. For 6.16 Unsportsmanlike
Conduct, the referee will choose a penalty appropriate given the nature of the offense.
9.12 Stalemate
If a stalemate occurs the original breaker of the rack will break again. (See 1.12 Stalemate.)
9. Ten Ball
Ten ball is a call shot game played with ten object balls numbered one through ten and the cue ball. The
balls are played in ascending numerical order
cue ball in order to establish a legal hit
and the player continues with his inning.
shot where no ball may be called.
9.1 Determining the Break
The player who wins the lag chooses who will break the first rack. (
of Play.) The standard format is to alternate the break, but see Regulation 15, Subsequent Break Shots.
9.2 Ten Ball Rack
The object balls are racked as tightly as possible in a triangular shape, with the one ball at the apex of
the triangle and on the foot spot and the ten ball in the middle of the triangle. The other balls will be
placed in the triangle without purposeful or intentional pattern. (
Balls.)
9.3 Legal Break Shot
The following rules apply to the break shot:
(a) the cue ball begins in hand behind the head string; and
(b) if no ball is pocketed, at least four object balls must be driven to one or
foul. (See Regulation 17, Open Break Requirements.
9.4 Second Shot of the Rack –
If no foul is committed on the break shot, the shooter may choose
must make his intention known to the referee, and then rules
Contact are suspended for the shot. If no foul is committed on a push out, the other player chooses who
will shoot next. The ten ball pocketed during a Push Out is spotted, without penalty.
and the lowest numbered ball must be
hit. If the ten ball is pocketed on a legal break shot, it will be spotted
Only one ball may be called on each shot,
(See 9.5 Call Shots & Pocketing Balls).
See 1.2 Lagging to Determine Order
) e See Regulation 4, Racking / Tapping of
Ten Ball Rack
more rails, or the shot is a
Requirements.)
Push Out
to play a “push out” as his shot. He
6.2 Wrong Ball First and
contacted by the
except on the break
gging 6.3 No Rail after
9.5 Call Shots & Pocketing Balls
Whenever the shooter is attempting to pocket a ball (except the break) he is required to call shots, the
intended ball and pocket must be indicated for each shot if they are not obvious. Details of the shot, such
as cushions struck or other balls contacted or pocketed are irrelevant.
For a called shot to count, the referee must be satisfied that the intended shot was made, so if there is
any chance of confusion, e.g. with bank, combination and similar shots, the shooter should indicate the
ball and pocket. If the referee or opponent is unsure of the shot to be played, he may ask for a call.
9.6 Safety
The shooter, after the break at anytime may call “safety” which permits him to make contact with the
legal object ball without pocketing a ball and end his inning. However, if the shooter pockets the legal
object ball the incoming player has the option to play the shot as left, or hand it back to his opponent.
(See 9.7 Wrongfully Pocketed Balls which also applies during a safety.)
9.7 Wrongfully Pocketed Balls
If a player misses his intended ball and pocket, and either makes the nominated ball in the wrong pocket
or pockets another ball, his inning has finished and the incoming player has the option to take the shot
as is, or hand it back to his opponent.
9.8 Continuing Play
If the shooter legally pockets a called/nominated ball on a shot (except a push out, see 2.4 Second Shot
of the Rack – Push Out), any additional balls pocketed remain pocketed (except the ten ball; see 9.9
Spotting Balls), and he continues at the table for the next shot. If he legally pockets the called ten ball
on any shot (except a push out), he wins the rack. If the shooter fails to pocket the called ball or fouls,
play passes to the other player, and if no foul was committed, the incoming player must play the
cue ball from the position left by the other player.
9.9 Spotting Balls
If the ten ball is pocketed on a foul, a push out or during the break shot, or without calling it, or
accidentally in the wrong pocket, or driven off the table, it is spotted. (See 1.4 Spotting Balls.) No other
object ball is ever spotted.
9.10 Standard Fouls
If the shooter commits a standard foul, play passes to his opponent. The cue ball is in hand, and the
incoming player may place it anywhere on the playing surface. (See 1.5 Cue Ball in Hand)
The following are standard fouls at ten ball:
6.1 Cue Ball Scratch or off the Table
6.2 Wrong Ball First The first object ball contacted by the cue ball on each shot must be the lowestnumbered
ball remaining on the table.
6.3 No Rail after Contact
6.4 No Foot on Floor
6.5 Ball Driven off the Table The only jumped object ball that is spotted is the ten.
6.6 Touched Ball
6.7 Double Hit / Frozen Balls
6.8 Push Shot
6.9 Balls Still Moving
6.10 Bad Cue Ball Placement
6.12 Cue Stick on the Table
6.13 Playing out of Turn
6.15 Slow Play top
9.11 Serious Fouls
For 6.14 Three Consecutive Fouls, the penalty is loss of the current rack. For 6.16 Unsportsmanlike
Conduct, the referee will choose a penalty appropriate given the nature of the offense.
9.12 Stalemate
If a stalemate occurs the original breaker of the rack will break again. (See 1.12 Stalemate.)
Mike.
If you are referring to the WPA rules, then your assumption in red is wrong. Its correct that if you call a safety and makes a ball, your opponent has a choice to put you back in, but if you miss and hook your opponent (and doesnt make another object ball), he still has to shoot.
Ten ball has always been played just like nine ball until the recent perversion in the WPA rules. Call shot makes the game overly complicated and more boring since it skews the game toward safe play.
Jerry Forsyth
Well-known member
Well, that cut and paste did not work so well. Thanks for seeing that. The link to the rules is: http://www.wpa-pool.com/index.asp?content=rules_10ball
ok, I've got one for you. Assuming we are using the WPA rules for 10-ball.
Let's say I am on the 5-ball and I see I also have a carom opportunity on the 10-ball.
Option #1: I call the 5-ball, make it and the 10-ball goes in. I believe the 10-ball gets spotted correct?
Option #2: I call the 5-ball and the 10-ball. I missed the 5-ball and the 10-ball goes in. Now what?
Option #3: I call the 5-ball and the 10-ball. I make the 5-ball and miss the 10-ball. Is it still my turn?
Let's say I am on the 5-ball and I see I also have a carom opportunity on the 10-ball.
Option #1: I call the 5-ball, make it and the 10-ball goes in. I believe the 10-ball gets spotted correct?
Option #2: I call the 5-ball and the 10-ball. I missed the 5-ball and the 10-ball goes in. Now what?
Option #3: I call the 5-ball and the 10-ball. I make the 5-ball and miss the 10-ball. Is it still my turn?
I don't care at all for calling your shot. Between two decent players, lucking a ball rarely will make the difference. The only thing I see calling your shot do is start a fight between two hacks in the bar.
1. Correct
2 and 3. Why on earth would you do that? Nobody is foolish enough to reduce their chances by calling two balls instead of one. You should only pick one.
Because making the 10-ball wins the game. So if I have a high percentage of making both balls, one of which would clench me winning the rack, then I will considering going for the win. If I only call the 5-ball and make the 10-ball, the 10-ball is spotted & I do not win b/c I must call the 10-ball for it to count as a win.
I'm asking the masses what happens if when I call both balls and I only pocket one of them.
Are you saying that you should only call the 5-ball and ignore the chance of making the 10-ball and/or only call the 10-ball? If you only call the 10-ball,and pocket the 5-ball while doing so, does the 10-ball still count since you didn't call pocketing the 5-ball?
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Ok, so if the 10-ball is called during a carom or combo, it's of no consequence if another ball is sunk during the shot so long as it was a legal shot? Kinda of like calling the 5-ball, pocketing it legally and sinking another ball in the same shot. The other sunk ball stays down (with the exception of the 10-ball which would be spotted).
Correct.
BTW, I run a WPA 10 Ball tournament every Thursday night. There are a lot of 9 ball players (all different skill levels) that really like these rules.
BTW, I run a WPA 10 Ball tournament every Thursday night. There are a lot of 9 ball players (all different skill levels) that really like these rules.
The 10 ball only count if you called it.
If you call the 10-ball, make the 5-ball and misses the 10-ball, your inning ends (Why? Failed to call the pocketed ball..)
If you call both balls, make the 5-ball and misses the 10-ball, your inning ends. (Why? You called the 10-ball, failed to pocket it..)
If you call both balls, misses the 5-ball and make the 10-ball, your inning ends. (Why? You called the 5-ball, failed to pocket it..)
Calling both balls is unnecessary and reduces your chances to win, no matter what.
So your options are:
1. Call the 5-ball, you make both, 10-ball is spotted, you can continue to run out
2. Call the 10-ball, doesnt matter if you make the 5-ball or not, as long as the 10-ball goes, you win.
Thanks! Both of these responses were EXACTLY what I was looking for! And Tom, I too LOVE these rules! Anything to take the luck out of the game I'm all for!!
unknownpro:
Depending on stance and background, many may agree with your opinion about the "call shot" and "skewing the game towards safety play" things. However, your first sentence is incorrect. Ten ball has always, historically, been played as a call ball/pocket game. (I don't like to say "call shot" because to me, that means pool as it's played in bars -- calling every rail, carom, ticky, etc.; *these* silly rules lead to more fights than anything.) Unfortunately, many of the sites that one would go to for "snapshot in time" rules from years past, don't maintain copies of those older rules and make them displayable to the public (e.g. BCA). I guess the impetus is to only have the most recent/updated rules available, so noone's trying to play by "old rules."
Wikipedia seems to have a good write-up of Ten ball, that makes some mention of the history of the game:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten-ball
If you come from a 9-ball background, I'm sure folks will understand your feelings about call ball/pocket play. However, other than the different shaped rack (i.e. 10-ball's triangular shaped rack which is much less vulnerable / exploitable to soft-breaking than the diamond-shaped 9-ball rack), what good is playing 10-ball with 9-ball Texas Express rules? What, it's "kewl" to play with a double-digit number of balls on the table over 9-ball's single-digit number of balls? I don't get it. If you want Texas Express rules, just play 9-ball. There's nothing wrong with 9-ball; that's just part of the game now. The real abomination/perversion is the "you'll pry my 9-ball Texas Express rules from my cold/dead fingers" insertion into a call ball/pocket game like 10-ball, "because 10-ball is the kewl game to play these days."
Two things:
1. You're not going to find 10-ball being played in a bar. Bar bangers looking for a fast-paced rotation game to gamble on are arguably going to play 9-ball, because of the ubiquity and familiarity of 9-ball.
2. Actually, "call shot" is a misnomer -- because "call shot" means calling every bounce, bank, carom, ticky, etc. that is made in the execution of the shot -- now these are bar rules, and are more likely to cause a fight. E.g.: "that ball that you sent down the rail to the corner pocket -- it touched the cushion about a diamond ahead of the pocket, that was a bank shot and you didn't specify you were banking it!" Or, if you're playing 8-ball, and your ball category is stripes, you shoot at two stripes that are frozen together (e.g. 10-/13-ball), call one of them into a corner pocket (e.g. the 10-ball), and successfully pocket that ball, with the 13-ball moving a bit. But your opponent comes up to you and said "you didn't call which of those two stripes you were going to hit first, and I can't tell if you hit the 10-ball first, or the 13-ball first, nor could I tell if you caromed that 10-ball off the 13-ball, or it went clean" and says you lose your turn! Now that is a ruleset *begging* for fights to get started!
Methinks call ball/pocket (or "ball/pocket nomination") is more correct. And, I'll stick my neck out on the line, but if you ask *any* of the pros that regularly play the game (e.g. Chris Bartrum), they'll agree that call ball/pocket nomination is the way to go in 10-ball. (Chris B.?)
-Sean