12.75 vs 13mm shafts?

I don't know where everybody aims. In the case of cutting the ball in I aim at about 1/8 ball or a tad more. I know some people say they aim at least 1/3 ball. Stroke has a say in where you aim, the cue is only part of the program IMO. I never checked where I aim to shoot through the two balls. Subconsiously I suppose I aim somewhat heavy towards the direction of the english.

I'm not a fan of Predator. They say it reduces squirt by 25%. What is 25% of a 1/2 inch? It's still enough to miss the ball by a large margin. It's all in getting use to what your playing with. I've shot with a few and honestly my aim doesn't change. I just don't like the small shafts or paying $200 for a shaft that isn't any more accurate than mine.

Some people say they are and they have to aim differently. Once again people are different and no one shaft or cue fits the bill for everyone.

Rodd
 
Sputnik said:
I think that it is true that a thicker shaft makes the sweetspot in the cue ball bigger. A thinner shaft will produce more deflection with a slight swaying of the srtoke because of a smaller sweetspot.

However, a thick shaft diameter cannot compromise a snug closed bridge. If the fingers of the player are small, and he likes using the closed bridge, he should get a thinner shaft.
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Sputnik,

I'll leave that up to other people to debate, that is squirt depending on shaft size.

As for the fat shaft, even with my short fingers it's not near to big for a closed bridge. 13mm has been a standard for years. Even at 13.25 mm it is only .010 thousands larger. As a comparison that's about the same as two sheets of printer paper. Our fingers will easily handle those small amounts.

Rodd
 
to anyone who cares,

Is a pro taper advisable for shafts with 12.75mm or less? If so, what is the best length of the taper? 15? 18inches?
A 13mm tip is definitely not for me. its way too big IMO for the cueball. I feel i just cant put a lot of juice on the cueball. But a 13mm daimeter for most part of the cue where i stroke feels just right.
 
Yes, Buddy Hall when playing with my cues, used a 12.75mm shaft. He said and i also agree with his stroke, it gave him more ball control. For 9 ball, most players do play with a smaller shaft. Not all, but most perfer the smaller dia.

The larger dia. the stiffer it is. Again, in most cases. For straight pool and 3 cushion, your using a stiffrer shaft. With 3 cushion, a real aggressive taper and the other one not a quick taper and not as stiff but longer.


With, smaller shafts, it's easier to make a draw shot with the smaller dia. shaft, and tip, as opposed to a heavier one, regardless of the taper.

hope this helps
blud
 
i have a 12.5 shaft, and my new cue is a 13mm shaft i was thinking of reshaping it and reducing its diameter like mika's, but before i did that, i played against a cue smith in sta. cruz manila, particularly in sunrise, as a matter of fact, efren used to play there as well, and i used my new cue, to my surprise i was hitting more accurately and my preparations for the next ball are much more precise. for once, i thought i want a smaller shaft diameter, but now, im gonna stick with my 13mm coz im winning more games against people whom i found hard to beat before...:D
also, i havent changed my ferrule and tip. i bought a brunswick blue diamond tip and an ivory ferrule but then again, i thought, since i was winning with this stick, why fix it? if it aint broke, dont fix it...:D
 
blud said:


With, smaller shafts, it's easier to make a draw shot with the smaller dia. shaft, and tip, as opposed to a heavier one, regardless of the taper.

hope this helps
blud
Click to expand...


Blud,

I've heard this statement on rare occasion but I've never heard anyone back it up with some sort of facts or proof. I have heard opinions, but we all have them. With a decent stroke either size should be easy. Can you tell us why a small shaft is easier?

Rodd
 
i think its like this, hit the cue ball with the butt of your cue stick...see if you can make a draw shot. hit it with your tip, and make a draw shot....see the difference now?
 
ha ha ha, :) No I'm only talking about a couple of milimeters max, say 13.25mm to 11.25mm, .080 thousands of an inch. It's not that big of a difference. Never could draw with the butt unless I hit down like a masse.

Rodd
 
yeah, that small difference matters a lot. on the feel on the player, on the shot, etc.
another practical example, that .080 thousandths of an inch would cost you a match if you have to cut the ball into the side pocket if you cut it by more than or less than .080 thousands of an inch...got it?
in pool, every micrometer counts. :)
 
Rodd said:
Sputnik,

I'll leave that up to other people to debate, that is squirt depending on shaft size.

As for the fat shaft, even with my short fingers it's not near to big for a closed bridge. 13mm has been a standard for years. Even at 13.25 mm it is only .010 thousands larger. As a comparison that's about the same as two sheets of printer paper. Our fingers will easily handle those small amounts.

Rodd
Click to expand...

Hi Rodd.

Shaft size, even if it is a fraction of a centimeter difference, can be considerable for people with small hands - that is, if the closed bridge is done in such a way that the index finger rests on the middle finger so as to have a snug grip on the wood (as the pros do). For closed bridges whose index fingers meet the thumb (widening the margin of error in shaft swaying), I guess it wouldn't matter.

In fact, pros who often use the closed bridge like their shafts to have the same diameter from the ferrule to half the length of the shaft before it tapers. This enables the grip of the closed bridge to be firm until the end of the follow through.

I will post another topic about the bridge.
 
locki,

Every player has feel, some like a 12mm shaft, some 12.75 and some over 13mm. Thats just preference, we all make our choice there.

My original question to Blud was why the statement or claim it easier to draw with a smaller shaft. I'm not aware of any reason and sorry feel just doesn't cut it. Care to try again?

You got off track with missing a ball in the side. I hope everyone knows if you miss a ball enough, even by a fraction, it may not go. Your right it is a very precise game, the more precise you are, usually the better player you are.

Rodd
 
The 13mm tip gives most average players more accuracy because unless you contact the cue ball precisely where you are aiming you will apply unwanted English on the cue ball which will in turn throw off your aiming accuracy. Set up a straight-in shot with the cue ball about five feet away and try to stop the cue ball using a soft draw shot. Any slight deviation from the center axis of the cue ball would impart unwanted english on the cue ball. Most average pool players would be more consistent in executing that shot without unwanted spin using a 13mm cue tip, and hence more consistency in their overall game. It’s all relative. A 13mm tip is less penal than a 12mm.
 
I agree with jayz, like his music too. smaller shaft, smaller tip, usually shorter radius on tip makes more spin possible, sometimes unwanted, more exacting instrument. like using small irons at golf, as opposed to the oversized "sweet spot" heads that higher handicappers use. most pros use blades because they can work the ball more, ie. more spin, they arent worried about making solid contact, they do that every shot already
 
Let me help clarify the original question again. One could say a 12mm tip is more accurate, another could say a 13mm tip is more accurate. Yet another could say an 11mm is more accurate. It doesn't make any difference if one is right (which none are), their all correct for them, the person shooting. BTW all three of these people could be Pro's. They shoot with a variety of tip and shaft sizes.

My original question was, why the statement that it is easier to draw with a smaller tip? The answer is it isn't. You can't apply anymore spin to a ball with a smaller tip size. That's why I question the statement. You can hit as low with a 13mm as you can with a 12 or 11mm. Maximum offset from center ball is the same. You can only go so low, top or side, and then it's a miscue.

Rodd
 
My original question was, why the statement that it is easier to draw with a smaller tip? The answer is it isn't. You can't apply anymore spin to a ball with a smaller tip size. That's why I question the statement. You can hit as low with a 13mm as you can with a 12 or 11mm. Maximum offset from center ball is the same. You can only go so low, top or side, and then it's a miscue.

Rodd

I would bet, without getting technical, that the majority of good players would agree with the statement: It is easier to draw the ball or put maximum english on the ball with a smaller diameter tip. Do you agree that the closer to the center of the tip you come in contact with the cue ball the more force you can generate? If so, the full force of your hit is concentrated closer to the center of the tip with a smaller diameter tip which would give you more impact power and theoretically enabling you to apply more english or draw the ball easier.
 
rodd...i agree. yeah, it really depends on the feel. i tried to play against myself last night using two different cue sticks. i tried my other cue, the one with the 12.5 diameter and my new one, the one with the 13 diameter. i was controlling the ball much better with the 13 mm compared with the 12.5 diameter. also, i was able to draw the ball longer compared to the smaller one...i wonder why...:)
well, at the end of the day, the fact that the matter is, they have different tips. the 13mm one has a dime shape, the 12.5 has a nickel shape.
and jayz is right about his last statement.
its like pressure....its equal to force over area. the smaller the area of contact, the higher the pressure, because the force is concentrated on a smaller point.
 
Sure you could say the majority of good players might say, it's easier to draw with a smaller tip. They might even say it doesn't make any difference.

The only way I could even come close to believing closer to the center of a tip creates more force is from an end of the galaxy standpoint. I mean it would be so remote you couldn't tell the difference. That's like it is presumed (by some people) that tip radius (more) creates more spin. There is no proof or results that any of this actually happens.

The Jacksonville tape shows effects of speed, spin, tip compression, etc. Even shot at, I believe 4000 frames per second it can't show such a minimal difference. You’re grasping at straws and the factor if anything is too minute to even consider. Well that is if I ask the question once again, why is it easier to draw with a smaller tip/shaft? As an example, if your answer is, it draws 1/10 of an inch farther in 3 feet, or 1 foot; that hardly constitutes saying it draws easier with a small shaft/tip.

If someone cuts their shaft down to make it easier to draw, they must really have a horrible stroke. If it's that bad they couldn't hit the c/b accurate enough to make a difference anyway! Which brings me to, you actually have to hit the c/b accurate to control the amount of draw or any english. If you can do this well, you'll know that a silly millimeter difference is only a preference in shaft size; not how well your able to draw, or for that matter follow the ball.

Rodd
 
very well said, at the end of the day, it all depends on the pool player.

like me, i draw farther using my 13 mm dime shaped tip compared to my friend's 12 mm dime shaped tip.
 
cues

I have played pool with a 9.5mm tip on a 17oz snooker cue , an 11+mm house cue @19oz and a 20oz 13mm pool cue.

It is easier for me to play precise shape with the 11mm.

The snooker cue is too light and the tip is too small. Its easy to give too much or too little E . Also, you have to be very precise when hitting the Qball not to give unwanted E.

I see plenty of guys draw the length
of the table with a 13mm tip. They all hit it sweetly as opposed to hard. Its got more to do with the stroke IMO.

I do think the wieght has some influence tho. If the cue is too heavy for you , you might have difficulty in controling it.


As for deflection, I find that the snooker cue deflects far more than the 13mm house cue.


Or maybe its just the way I aim. LOL


Gabber
 

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Ok guys, I think some of you are really ticked off because you didn't get the job at NASA, and you are trying to apply all of that rocket science to pool.

It's easy - Carry both. When I was playing very seriously, I carried a 12.5 for barboxes, and a 13 for 9fts. The smaller tip made it easier for me to move that big heavy cb around, and I found the 13 to be more accurate on long shots on the big table.

Put the ball in the hole. Repeat.

I learned to shoot pool by watching my dad play guys for 20$ a rack BETWEEN HIS TOES. I have also beaten more than one poor soul with a BROOMSTICK. Would someone do the 'deflection and squirt' math on that for me please?


PS - God bless Tim Scruggs!
 
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