14.1 Straight Pool Foul

[Double-Dave]

Hi there, first of all I want to introduce myself, my name is Dave Heijboer, I come from Holland, I've been playing pool now for about ten years. Currently ranked number 291 in Holland but three months ago that was 432 so I'm going places . I use a McDermott MG-26 playing cue which is currently being fully serviced (including new shaft) absolutely for free at the factory, for jumping and breaking I use a j&j with phenolic tip. Now to the problem I wanted you guys to think about:

During a straight pool match without a referee Player A scratches the cue-ball, and gives it to Player B. Player B positions the cue-ball on the center of the top rail, where a referee would normally place it, and then starts to inspect the rack. While inspecting the rack he touches one of the objectballs with his cue and thus makes a foul. Now what? Does Player A have to continue with the cue-ball on the center of the top rail, or can he/she place it freely in the kitchen, or is Player B still at the table with minus 1? Or something else alltogether. Hope someone can help.

edit: In Holland and in europe all games, ref. or no ref. are all-ball foul.

 

[BAZARUS]

Hi there, first of all I want to introduce myself, my name is Dave Heijboer, I come from Holland, I've been playing pool now for about ten years. Currently ranked number 291 in Holland but three months ago that was 432 so I'm going places . I use a McDermott MG-26 playing cue which is currently being fully serviced (including new shaft) absolutely for free at the factory, for jumping and breaking I use a j&j with phenolic tip. Now to the problem I wanted you guys to think about:

During a straight pool match without a referee Player A scratches the cue-ball, and gives it to Player B. Player B positions the cue-ball on the center of the top rail, where a referee would normally place it, and then starts to inspect the rack. While inspecting the rack he touches one of the objectballs with his cue and thus makes a foul. Now what? Does Player A have to continue with the cue-ball on the center of the top rail, or can he/she place it freely in the kitchen, or is Player B still at the table with minus 1? Or something else alltogether. Hope someone can help.

HI

Nice to have a new face. I'm originally from Poland, now living in US.

Thats the first time for me to. I guess since no shot has been made after the scratch the other player can place the cue ball anywhere in the kitchen.

 

[Gerry]

Most likely NOT a scratch, and the opponent gets to re-spot the ball where they think it was, or let the one that moved it put it back.

Whenever playing ANY game, make sure to find out if your playing "cueball fouls only" or "All ball fouls" it really does take away alot of the questions later.

Welcome, and keep playing straight pool!.....Gerry

 

[Double-Dave]

Most likely NOT a scratch, and the opponent gets to re-spot the ball where they think it was, or let the one that moved it put it back.

Whenever playing ANY game, make sure to find out if your playing "cueball fouls only" or "All ball fouls" it really does take away alot of the questions later.

Welcome, and keep playing straight pool!.....Gerry

I'm not sure if you understand my question correctly. There is no debate about whether or not the cue-ball has scratched (been pocketed). It has.

 

[Solartje]

hey double dave. im from belgium welcome to the forums. Where do u play in holland? weert?

anyway, i think like gerry; balls are replaced like before they were moved, and opponent gets cb in hand in the kitchen.

 

[Double-Dave]

hey double dave. im from belgium welcome to the forums. Where do u play in holland? weert?

anyway, i think like gerry; balls are replaced like before they were moved, and opponent gets cb in hand in the kitchen.

Hi there, yes I will play at the Weert open, normally I play in La Plaza in Hoensbroek. I might have misunderstood Gerry, since you agree with him, and your answer seems most reasonable. I didn't catch the part about CB in hand in the kitchen.

 

[Donovan]

WOW! I have no idea what to do in this situation according to the rules. Player B should get a foul and Player A should be shooting again. 14.1 is an all-ball foul game, unless the rules state otherwise. It is player A's decision on whether to move that object ball back to it's original location or not.

However, where does the cue ball get played from? I have no idea. But for me logic in the rules say, (if I had to make a ruling in that situation), since Player B put the cue ball in play before making the foul, Player A must shoot it from there. Since the cue ball is not allowed to be moved after a foul unless it is pocketed or knocked off of the playing surface. Now if the foul happened before putting the ball in play I would guess Player A would get ball in hand in the kitchen.

I can't wait to see what someone who actually knows this will tell us!

 

[Donovan]

I know it is to guess at these, so hopefully someone can tell us for sure.

I also know when I answer a rules question with guessing invovled, I am going to have take the beatings as they come. later on!

 

[Double-Dave]

Thanks for your response. Perhaps I should add that in europe all games are all-ball foul, if I understand the term correctly. What I mean is when you're bridging over an objectball to get to the cue-ball and you touch it with your arm or clothing it is a foul in all cases.

gr. Dave

 

[bogey54311]

two different ways to go.

if your playing ALL FOULS, yes, minus 1 point and other player comes to the table.

if you don't play all fouls, the opposing player would put the ball where he thought it was.

the reason this happens, no arguments, and the player who moved it can't make a DEAD combo.

i once saw a guy move a ball with his nose to make a dead combo in a rack. he pretended to look at the rack REAL close.......lol

good luck.


chris G

 

[Donovan]

Thanks for your response. Perhaps I should add that in europe all games are all-ball foul, if I understand the term correctly. What I mean is when you're bridging over an objectball to get to the cue-ball and you touch it with your arm or clothing it is a foul in all cases.

gr. Dave

That is how we refer to all-ball fouls here on AZB too.

Hopefully someone can give us an offical ruling on cue ball placement.

This was a great question BTW!

 

[Double-Dave]

Hopefully someone can give us an offical ruling on cue ball placement.

This was a great question BTW!

I hope so too. I'll try to keep it up. I've got another couple of problems a.o. with 14.1.

gr. Dave

 

[Donovan]

I hope so too. I'll try to keep it up. I've got another couple of problems a.o. with 14.1.

gr. Dave

Dave, many of our refs and pool rules guru's are at Derby City, it may be a week or so before you get a real answer.

 

[Solartje]

Hi there, yes I will play at the Weert open, normally I play in La Plaza in Hoensbroek. I might have misunderstood Gerry, since you agree with him, and your answer seems most reasonable. I didn't catch the part about CB in hand in the kitchen.

hiya dave, i hope ill be able to make it to the weert open. Things like this dont happen so often :s but there is some problems: it lasts over serveral days, so i need a hotel to sleep in (cant afford it), or drive back and forward (dont got a car) so not sure. I REALLY want to go, and hope i will. If i go, ill be sure to let u know something. Maybe we can play some racks.

 

[Double-Dave]

I hope we can play some racks. The weert open is played on sunday the 29th, so just one day. Off course you have to qualify first, and that will also cost you a day. You could try to qualify on saturday and then stay. There is a small chance Ronnie O´Sullivan will be playing 7-ball. Thomas Engert will definitely participate.
gr. Dave
p.s. Do you visit poolkrant forum? It´s dutch.

 

[macguy]

Hi there, first of all I want to introduce myself, my name is Dave Heijboer, I come from Holland, I've been playing pool now for about ten years. Currently ranked number 291 in Holland but three months ago that was 432 so I'm going places . I use a McDermott MG-26 playing cue which is currently being fully serviced (including new shaft) absolutely for free at the factory, for jumping and breaking I use a j&j with phenolic tip. Now to the problem I wanted you guys to think about:

During a straight pool match without a referee Player A scratches the cue-ball, and gives it to Player B. Player B positions the cue-ball on the center of the top rail, where a referee would normally place it, and then starts to inspect the rack. While inspecting the rack he touches one of the objectballs with his cue and thus makes a foul. Now what? Does Player A have to continue with the cue-ball on the center of the top rail, or can he/she place it freely in the kitchen, or is Player B still at the table with minus 1? Or something else alltogether. Hope someone can help.

I don't think any foul has occurred and you have to try to replace the ball as best you can and player B still shoots from behind the line. There is a reason for this being the case I believe. Let's say player A has just scratched and supposed player B corner hooks the cue ball in one of the corner pockets at the head of the table and goes down to the rack and "OOPS" he touches the rack he would now have player A on the first scratch and corner hooked. Until the cueball is put into play by shooting it across the head string, play has not begun and I don't think any foul can be called.

 

[macguy]

Hi there, first of all I want to introduce myself, my name is Dave Heijboer, I come from Holland, I've been playing pool now for about ten years. Currently ranked number 291 in Holland but three months ago that was 432 so I'm going places . I use a McDermott MG-26 playing cue which is currently being fully serviced (including new shaft) absolutely for free at the factory, for jumping and breaking I use a j&j with phenolic tip. Now to the problem I wanted you guys to think about:

During a straight pool match without a referee Player A scratches the cue-ball, and gives it to Player B. Player B positions the cue-ball on the center of the top rail, where a referee would normally place it, and then starts to inspect the rack. While inspecting the rack he touches one of the objectballs with his cue and thus makes a foul. Now what? Does Player A have to continue with the cue-ball on the center of the top rail, or can he/she place it freely in the kitchen, or is Player B still at the table with minus 1? Or something else alltogether. Hope someone can help.

Ever play at Dyke I think that is how it is spelled, I think the owner's name is Mario? I have played in their Easter tournament a few times.

 

[Double-Dave]

Hi there, I think you mean Dijkje (Duinzicht), in Leiden if i´m not mistaken, but there are a few places with that name. I haven´t been to any of them. I´ve only started playing tournaments a couple of months ago, to raise my ranking into the top 100, so I haven´t been to a lot of centers more than say 50 miles away.

 

[macguy]

Hi there, I think you mean Dijkje (Duinzicht), in Leiden if i´m not mistaken, but there are a few places with that name. I haven´t been to any of them. I´ve only started playing tournaments a couple of months ago, to raise my ranking into the top 100, so I haven´t been to a lot of centers more than say 50 miles away.

That's the place. They get a lot of players I played in a tournament with like over 300 players in it. Nice tournament and lots of action, the Germans will really bet it up and they don't quit, I won a lot of money in Germany but every where else they didn't seem to bet, in France I was threatened with arrest. So many Americans found out how easy it was to win money there and were making the trip, in a short time they wouldn't play any Americans at all. That's like 10 years ago and there are a lot more good players over there now. Back then as long as you stayed away from the top players like Ortman and a few others you could beat most anybody you played. They have really come a long way in a short time.

 

[Tom In Cincy]

In an "un refereed' match, it is 'cue ball fouls only'

Since the incoming player only moved the object ball, play would stop and opponent would place the object ball back into the original position or leave it where it is.

If the incoming player 'B' moves the ball and doesn't stop play (takes it upon himself to replace the object ball) this could be considered a foul, and in some cases, 'unsportsman like conduct' with forfieture of match or at the minimum a 'warning'.

Player B's turn at the table (under normal circumstances) does not start until the cue ball passes the head string. If player B commits a foul (moving balls and not letting them be restored by his opponent) he could be given a foul (minus 15 points) for unsportsman like conduct or forfieture of match.

If the 'unsportsman like conduct' is enforced, Player A could get a 15 ball rack and have player B break under opening game conditions. Two Object balls to the rail plus the cue ball or it is considered a foul.