2 ball run out

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off_tizilt

Registered
Hello all, its my first time posting here. I had this shot come up last night during a game of nine ball. My opponent missed the 8 ball badly leaving me this shot. I tried to force follow the 8 but ended up scratching in the side pocket. Could someone show me some alternative shots or maybe a possible safety? thanks.

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You don't want to force follow because the follow won't have time to grip the cloth because you shoot hard and the cueball scratches in the middle along the tangent line. Instead, shoot as softly as you can, just a little bit of follow and as much as left english as you can shoot. When shooting softly, the cueball will have time to bend beyond the sidepocket and the side spin will take the cueball near the 9-ball.

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Only bad thing about this is that it works much better with old cloth. With new cloth, it might be impossible. Especially if the rail cloth is new so the english will have little effect on cueball movement.
 
Well, I'l intentionally omit two of the expert options (the three rail bank to pocket the eight in the corner and the follow stroke to beat the scratch and go forward while pocketing the eight) in favor of shots that are the ones I'd prefer to see competent but non-expert players considering here.

Diagram 1: A big stroke, stun draw with right hand english to go three rails back toward the nine.

Diagram 2: A passive, but reasonable safety. Tap the eight ball and leave it near the bottom rail using just a little follow. This may not be good enough if your opponent is a very strong player, but if puts you in a safety battle that you have a chance to win against most opponents.

Diagram 3: An agressive safety, and you need to make sure you beat the kiss. Send the eight four rails to the top rail for a safety, while leaving the cue ball on the bottom half of the table. That should also put you in a safety battle against most opponents.

Hope that helps.
 

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off_tizilt said:
Hello all, its my first time posting here. I had this shot come up last night during a game of nine ball. My opponent missed the 8 ball badly leaving me this shot. I tried to force follow the 8 but ended up scratching in the side pocket. Could someone show me some alternative shots or maybe a possible safety? thanks.

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i think someone already pointed out that a force follow will always scratch on this shot. the harder you hit the ball the longer it follows the tangent line. in this case, the tangent takes you to the side pocket. you can beat the side scrath with a medium to soft follow.

if really feel brave, add a touch of inside :D

VAP
 
and i'm not real positive about the angle, as you can never tell in these wei pics..........but if you have a good power stroke, or a decently fast table....you could always load this shot up with draw and righthand spin and go all the way around the table.

VAP
 
I agree with those who say the scatch might be unbeatable, no time for the follow to catch...if the tables have real loose pockets, you can probably cheat the pocket enough to beat the scratch and get shape with high left.

IMHO, the 9 really wants to be shaped with a strong low-right draw stroke. On good simonis, you won't need to hit super hard and you'll pick up some nice speed off the first rail. The worst case is ending up with a tough bank, but that's better than scratching.
 
IMO - I Would.........

IMO - I Would bank the eight cross corner using left or low left. The key is to make sure that if you miss the bank, you miss it LONG and it will go 4 rails and land on the top rail. The cue should end up almost stright in on the nine with the proper throw & or english. JMO

TY & GL
 
OldHasBeen said:
IMO - I Would bank the eight cross corner using left or low left. The key is to make sure that if you miss the bank, you miss it LONG and it will go 4 rails and land on the top rail. The cue should end up almost stright in on the nine with the proper throw & or english. JMO

TY & GL
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Damn, OHB. I was already drawing a diagram on this suggestion :) Well, sometimes experience beats the youth in speed as well... sigh ;)
 
off_tizilt said:
...Could someone show me some alternative shots or maybe a possible safety?...
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Better yet, I'll point you in the right direction to learn how to avoid scratching altogether. The best DVD on this is Dr. Dave's and his 30 and 90 degree rules. Watching his DVD, taking notes, and practicing what I learned got me to where I could play an entire evening without scratching once.

I now rarely scratch in an obvious scratch pocket as I know what to do to avoid scratching, know how to tell where the CB will go, and know how to hit the CB to get it to avoid the pocket.

Study this DVD like there is no tomorrow. Diagram the shots and practice them daily.

Dr. Daves DVD...
http://www.billiard-balls.com/sbdvip.html
 
Cory in DC said:
I agree with those who say the scatch might be unbeatable, no time for the follow to catch...
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from that angle, the scratch can be beaten with a soft to medium follow.

he used a force follow, which makes it impossible.

VAP
 
OldHasBeen said:
IMO - I Would bank the eight cross corner using left or low left. The key is to make sure that if you miss the bank, you miss it LONG and it will go 4 rails and land on the top rail. The cue should end up almost stright in on the nine with the proper throw & or english. JMO

TY & GL
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I like that shot a lot, maybe more than the 3-rail draw -- though I'd be slightly worried about the double kiss. Would you hit it firm and beat the kiss short (8 goes in front of the CB) and then let the CB drift to the bottom?
 
vapoolplayer said:
from that angle, the scratch can be beaten with a soft to medium follow.

he used a force follow, which makes it impossible.

VAP
Click to expand...
I agree that you can make the 8 and follow without scratching in the side, but I don't think you can do that while hitting hard enough to shape the 9 for the top-left pocket, nor soft enough to shape the tough cut on the 9 in the bottom-left pocket.
 
Of course, it's always easier to judge these things in person. As great a tool as the Wei Table is, nothing beats actually SEEING the shot.

One option here that was taught to me by Richard Peck (prob. the best stroke I've ever seen) would be to use a ton of right english and throw the ball in. You'll be able to hit the object ball near full and follow straight down for the 9. This is, of course, a highly advanced shot and I'm not 100% certain I'd be comfortable taking this route.

Of course, there is the left-spin option (which is the way I'd like to go) but that shot is only available if the rails are a bit bouncy and the cloth is fast since you'll need to hit it on the light-side to avoid the scratch.
 
Yes

Cory in DC said:
I like that shot a lot, maybe more than the 3-rail draw -- though I'd be slightly worried about the double kiss. Would you hit it firm and beat the kiss short (8 goes in front of the CB) and then let the CB drift to the bottom?
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YES - HIT IT FIRM AND THROW THE CUE BALL - OR - IF YOUR WORRIED ABOUT THE KISS - DRAW IT WITH LOW LEFT.

TY & GL
 
OldHasBeen said:
YES - HIT IT FIRM AND THROW THE CUE BALL - OR - IF YOUR WORRIED ABOUT THE KISS - DRAW IT WITH LOW LEFT.

TY & GL
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Actually, one of the advantages to playing the bank is if you miss long, you'll likely end up with SJM's safety in his 3rd diagram.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
Of course, there is the left-spin option (which is the way I'd like to go) but that shot is only available if the rails are a bit bouncy and the cloth is fast since you'll need to hit it on the light-side to avoid the scratch.
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That's what I was thinking Jude, but how do you know which side the light is on?

Boro Nut
 
I forgot to mention - FYI

Jude Rosenstock said:
Actually, one of the advantages to playing the bank is if you miss long, you'll likely end up with SJM's safety in his 3rd diagram.
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I for got to mention that all shots that I propose - Are being shot with a
Rhino Foreskin Tip. I am assuming that anyone who is serious about pool, has at least one by now.

TY & GL
 
OldHasBeen said:
I for got to mention that all shots that I propose - Are being shot with a
Rhino Foreskin Tip. I am assuming that anyone who is serious about pool, has at least one by now.

TY & GL
Click to expand...

Great shot selection OHB.
They were out of Rhino but I did manage to find some real good Kangaroo foreskin. This thing jumps better than anything on the market.
 
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