3/8" facing vs subrail extension

[rykr01]

I'm installing a GC3 this Saturday (or having my mechanic do it) and I want to tighten the corners to 4.5" and sides to 5". I keep hearing that subrail extensions are the way to go but those can be tricky. I see the 3/8" facings at classic billiards and wondering if they are good alternative.

Also, can someone post a link to the photos or videos of realkingcobra doing the subrail extensions? I would like to see how they work.

My final question is about cutting the miter angle in the pockets. If we are tightening the pockets 1/4" in each side how is the miter done? I keep seeing you want to reduce the mouth of the pocket but not the throat. Or do I have that wrong?

 

[fastone371]

I'm installing a GC3 this Saturday (or having my mechanic do it) and I want to tighten the corners to 4.5" and sides to 5". I keep hearing that subrail extensions are the way to go but those can be tricky. I see the 3/8" facings at classic billiards and wondering if they are good alternative.

Also, can someone post a link to the photos or videos of realkingcobra doing the subrail extensions? I would like to see how they work.

My final question is about cutting the miter angle in the pockets. If we are tightening the pockets 1/4" in each side how is the miter done? I keep seeing you want to reduce the mouth of the pocket but not the throat. Or do I have that wrong?

The wood sub-rail extensions are attached to the rail when the cushions are off. The cut a piece of wood thicker than need be and attach it to the rail, it is contoured to match the sub-rail, after it is attached the pocket miters are then cut to equal and correct dimensions for your pocket size. That's as much as I can explain. As far as mouth/throat dimensions that's not my department. What I do know is that I had my GCI sub-rails extended for 4 3/8" pockets and the sub-rail angle corrected for currently available cushions about 10 years ago, it plays fantastic. I don't think that you would be getting rail extensions the same day your table is set up, I think most mechanics do that work off sight and in their shop but I could be wrong.

 

[rykr01]

The wood sub-rail extensions are attached to the rail when the cushions are off. The cut a piece of wood thicker than need be and attach it to the rail, it is contoured to match the sub-rail, after it is attached the pocket miters are then cut to equal and correct dimensions for your pocket size.

I was hoping someone had posted pictures of this process. Much easier to visualize in pictures.

 

[garczar]

I was hoping someone had posted pictures of this process. Much easier to visualize in pictures.

just look up subrail extensions. there are pics out there. i've played on a table with the thicker facings and it played fine. doing the extensions is going to set you back about 1500bux. https://www.google.com/search?q=sub...0N3MQrQIoBHoECBkQBQ&biw=1408&bih=653&dpr=1.36 lots of pics. what you're doing is extending the subrail and then use longer cushions. definitely the better way to go but you have to decide is it worth the money to YOU.

 

[rykr01]

Right. I'm just trying to education myself about pocket miter angle. I saw somewhere it was mentioned to put on a 3/16" subrail extension followed by a 3/16" facing. However, where does the miter angle come in? Is that simply the angle cut on the rail rubber?

 

[boogieman]

This isn't about sub rail modification, but it's what I did to fix my old olhausen to get it playing not so rattle-y. There is a bit of discussion there. Note that this isn't the proper way to do it but it did work and was playable. If I had a nice table like a GC I would have been much more keen to do the proper subrail extension, but on an Olhausen I didn't want to invest a ton of money into it. It actually turned it into a great playing table though.

Some other search terms is "diamondize" or "diamondized." Not that you are trying to make the table play like a diamond, but a lot of old threads where they discussed sub rail extensions used that term.

The search here on AZ is kind of lame, but if you do this you can get a much better search of the site:

How to Search an Entire Website in Google: 4 Simple Steps

1. Click in the Google search bar or your address bar if you use Google Chrome.
2. Type “site:” followed by the name of the website you're searching. ...
3. Follow the website name with a single space and then type the search phrase.
4. Hit Enter or Return to begin the search.

 

[rexus31]

It's not a difficult process to visualize. Existing cushions are removed, wood is added to the end of the subrails at the pocket opening, added wood is cut to the contour of the subrail, pockets are cut to the desired size and angle, cushions are installed and trimmed and pocket facings are installed. Pocket size determines the miter angle. Diamond cuts their 4.5" corners at 141°. My pockets are 4.125" and are cut at 140°. Down angle of the facing cut also plays a big part in pocket geometry. This can range from 12°-15°, I believe. I'll defer to the experts on the optimal down angle.

 

[Poseidon]

I'm installing 3/8" rail facings right now on my Gold Crown III. I'm using 50A Neoprene. I've seen people say that most people won't be able to tell the difference between these and subrail extensions.
I've never done this before. How's this look? I'm test fitting them and waiting on new cloth to arrive. (Gray paint job added after some Bondo patching).

 

[fastone371]

I'm installing 3/8" rail facings right now on my Gold Crown III. I'm using 50A Neoprene. I've seen people say that most people won't be able to tell the difference between these and subrail extensions.
I've never done this before. How's this look? I'm test fitting them and waiting on new cloth to arrive. (Gray paint job added after some Bondo patching).
View attachment 781743
View attachment 781744

The difference is that you will have a large dead spot at the pocket opening. That area of black facing the center of the table is supposed to be rubber cushion. Even though 3/8" is relatively small its a common place of the rail the will get struck with the ball often.

 

[EL Picos]

Take 3/8'' 50D neoprene and you won't have dead spot, 50D react pratically like cushion, go with 140 degree angle and 14-15 degree down for corner and 101-102 for side pocket, you will love it, I made some tables like that and that play very well!

 

[EL Picos]

I order from this seller at Amazon, E.James, I always receive good quality material from him. I have often had returns to make with other sellers, bad hardness and bad quality material.
https://www.amazon.com/Rubber-Strip...5+3/8&qid=1727908094&sprefix=,aps,116&sr=8-40

 

[Poseidon]

The difference is that you will have a large dead spot at the pocket opening. That area of black facing the center of the table is supposed to be rubber cushion. Even though 3/8" is relatively small its a common place of the rail the will get struck with the ball often.

I haven't actually played on a table that had this modification done. I was under the impression that using this softer neoprene will make it react more like the rubber cushion, as compared to just stacking the regular harder rail facings. Have you played on a table that had this modification?

 

[fastone371]

I haven't actually played on a table that had this modification done. I was under the impression that using this softer neoprene will make it react more like the rubber cushion, as compared to just stacking the regular harder rail facings. Have you played on a table that had this modification?

No, but I have seen many here complain about pockets with thick shims here. I highly doubt you will find a facing that plays similar to a cushion but I have been wrong before.

 

[Poseidon]

In my subjective opinion, I think these 3/8" 50A neoprene facings are just fine. I can't feel any difference between the Suprespeed softness and the facing when I poke them with my fingers and I'm not enough of an expert to detect the difference between this and my unmodified table while playing. However I haven't had a chance to compare it to a full subrail modification. I'd assume the subrail mod would be superior but I don't know.
I ended up with 4.300" at the mouth and 3.800" at the throat. The shelf depth is 1.188". That gives a (Billiard University) Table Difficulty Factor of .98, which is average. And that's all I want.
Im happy with the results.

 

[EL Picos]

The only difference is that the 3/8 50A facings will have a little more vibration than thinner facings when powering shots along the rails in the corner pockets. I know this because I have experienced it more than once.

 

[Lawnboy77]

Being that this is a GC, not a cheap table, I’d ship those rails out to a top notch mechanic like Mark Gregory, or Jack Zimmerman for overhaul/subrail rework. It will play great for years and the value will increase proportionally.

Another option is to order a custom set with those tight specs that most serious players want, and later have the originals overhauled to original specs. This way you won’t have any down time and you will satisfy more potential buyers if you go to sell it. It’s a great option. Mark made me a set of Walnut pro-cuts and Jack overhauled the originals to original specs for my Anniversary.

 

[jtompilot]

Looks like there will be a little dip and small notch between the cushion and the facing that will effect any banking in that area. Thats what if seen on every table I've played on that had thick spacings installed. Horrible for 1P, OK for 9 ball practice table.

 

[boogieman]

I'm installing 3/8" rail facings right now on my Gold Crown III. I'm using 50A Neoprene. I've seen people say that most people won't be able to tell the difference between these and subrail extensions.
I've never done this before. How's this look? I'm test fitting them and waiting on new cloth to arrive. (Gray paint job added after some Bondo patching).
View attachment 781743

Before you spend the effort on putting the cloth on, I'd correct the transition between the cushion and facing. If you put a straight edge along the cushion nose you should not see any gap of divot between the two. This looks like it has a gap where they meet... or they are not flush to put it a better way.

The easiest way is to take a file and wrap it with sandpaper. Really get meticulous to match the profile of the facing to be the same shape as the cushion nose, and also make sure they are dead flush. If not it really ends up not looking great. It may or may not effect playing but you will be annoyed every time you notice it. You will want to leave the facing a bit large and finish the nose of it this way. It's a bit tedious but very do-able. Just take it slow and remember you can remove rubber but you can't add more.

 

[garczar]

The difference is that you will have a large dead spot at the pocket opening. That area of black facing the center of the table is supposed to be rubber cushion. Even though 3/8" is relatively small its a common place of the rail the will get struck with the ball often.

no, the facing is what protects the ends of the cushions. he did it right. https://www.classicbilliards.net/cu...urometer-hardness-die-cut-cushion-facing.html

 

[fastone371]

no, the facing is what protects the ends of the cushions. he did it right. https://www.classicbilliards.net/cu...urometer-hardness-die-cut-cushion-facing.html

Correct, but when you put thick facings on they essentially become part of the cushion at the very ends, its very noticeable around the side pockets. When you add wood extensions you have to replace the cushions because the new cushions need to be longer.