8-ball rule - Fair and ethical, or barely legal?

[rackmsuckr]

I was wondering what everyone thinks of the 8-ball rule that says you can go ahead and intentionally pocket your opponent's balls and give them BIH? What it does is remove breakout balls and diminishes the chance of safeties (less balls to safe off of and/or hide behind).

After your opponent shoots all your balls in, you are forced to end up nudging the cluster time after time until something is frozen or broken out, or unless the game is called as a deadlock. This situation can also happen when hitting either ball would result in making the 8-ball early.

It just seems weird to me to intentionally make someone else's ball - feels almost unethical, even though that is the rule and you should be able to use the rules to win. I wonder if the IPT will implement it? Has it happened to you and what do you think?

 

[Purdman]

I was wondering what everyone thinks of the 8-ball rule that says you can go ahead and intentionally pocket your opponent's balls and give them BIH? What it does is remove breakout balls and diminishes the chance of safeties (less balls to safe off of and/or hide behind).

After your opponent shoots all your balls in, you are forced to end up nudging the cluster time after time until something is frozen or broken out, or unless the game is called as a deadlock. This situation can also happen when hitting either ball would result in making the 8-ball early.

It just seems weird to me to intentionally make someone else's ball - feels almost unethical, even though that is the rule and you should be able to use the rules to win. I wonder if the IPT will implement it? Has it happened to you and what do you think?

When I play my wife for the cash in 9 ball, I give her the 7 & 8. You bet your butt I make the 7 & 8 whenever I can, especially if it is sitting in front of the pocket. Man she hates that sh!t.
Purdman

 

[Tom In Cincy]

Does it change your opinion if you hit your ball first, then carom or combo your opponents ball into a pocket?

One Pocket promotes shooting a ball into your opponents pocket. I know, different game, but the strategy is the same.

From the viewpoint of the 'offensive' minded player, I can see that this ploy can be considered 'bad form' but then again, a lot of safety play is looked down upon as 'bad form'.

My guess is that you don't like the 3 foul rule in these games either;
9 ball, One Pocket and 14.1.

 

[rackmsuckr]

Does it change your opinion if you hit your ball first, then carom or combo your opponents ball into a pocket?

One Pocket promotes shooting a ball into your opponents pocket. I know, different game, but the strategy is the same.

From the viewpoint of the 'offensive' minded player, I can see that this ploy can be considered 'bad form' but then again, a lot of safety play is looked down upon as 'bad form'.

My guess is that you don't like the 3 foul rule in these games either;
9 ball, One Pocket and 14.1.

Not at all - I love 3-fouling people!! Playing a good safe is just as hard and just as satisfying as playing an excellent shot. My opinion does change if I hit my ball first. What I am talking about is people blatantly shooting your ball in, 1 by 1. I can't quite bring myself to do it, even though it was probably the right strategy. If the IPT allows it, then I am gonna have to learn to love it. Still feels creepy though, imho.

 

[rackmsuckr]

Not at all - I love 3-fouling people!! Playing a good safe is just as hard and just as satisfying as playing an excellent shot. My opinion does change if I hit my ball first. What I am talking about is people blatantly shooting your ball in, 1 by 1. I can't quite bring myself to do it, even though it was probably the right strategy. If the IPT allows it, then I am gonna have to learn to love it. Still feels creepy though, imho.

I'm not sure if I was clear that the opponent is intentionally shooting my ball first, resulting in giving me ball in hand. I have 3-fouled players that said they have never been 3-fouled before and I love 1-pocket and frequently have to shoot their ball in when there is no take-out. That is not penalized with BIH though.

 

[dogginda9]

JMO. I feel that this is a very underrated strategy that not enough people put into play. It also makes things more challengeing for the other player.

 

[DougT]

8ball strategy

I'm not sure if I was clear that the opponent is intentionally shooting my ball first, resulting in giving me ball in hand.

No Linda, a large part of 8ball strategy is to look over the layout of the table to see how many trouble spots you have, and how to break them out, but also how many trouble spots your opponent has, and how is he going to solve those problems. If there's a 'duck' on a nearby pocket, it's a perfect breakout ball. If you have no other shot to advance your cause, eliminate one of his advantages.

Just like if you have a problem, he doesn't want you pushing a helper over to set up your breakout.

It is a strategy game, and also a shotmaking game. Larry Schwartz has a good 8ball strategy book. One of his thoughts relates each of your balls as soldiers. If you have lots of soldiers, it prevents your opponent from beating you. Until you're ready to run the table and win the war.

I have seen and used this strategy. It's better if you can push your ball to replace the opponents hanger, but when options get thin, it's an excellent way to take back control of the table.
By the way, congrats and Good luck!

Doug

 

[vagabond]

It is an accepted strategy and it is nothing to do with morals/ethics.u should ask,is it manly to do?

 

[rackmsuckr]

No Linda, a large part of 8ball strategy is to look over the layout of the table to see how many trouble spots you have, and how to break them out, but also how many trouble spots your opponent has, and how is he going to solve those problems. If there's a 'duck' on a nearby pocket, it's a perfect breakout ball. If you have no other shot to advance your cause, eliminate one of his advantages.

Yes, I agree about the strategy. My example was that there is a cluster with one of each of our balls in it. It could even be tied up with the 8, which would be fatal if we hit the cluster, because it could go in. I keep setting up a break out ball and my opponent keeps shooting it in. He has no balls left on the table and I have plenty, except he keeps shooting them in with the cue ball, not his object ball.

Just like if you have a problem, he doesn't want you pushing a helper over to set up your breakout. Exactly!

It is a strategy game, and also a shotmaking game. Larry Schwartz has a good 8ball strategy book. One of his thoughts relates each of your balls as soldiers. If you have lots of soldiers, it prevents your opponent from beating you. Until you're ready to run the table and win the war. I agree. If I have more balls, I feel I have most of the control, because of safeties, etc. But I can't if he keeps shooting mine in, until there is nothing left but the cluster.
I have seen and used this strategy. It's better if you can push your ball to replace the opponents hanger, I do this all the time but when options get thin, it's an excellent way to take back control of the table.
By the way, congrats and Good luck! Thank you very much! Looking forward to some thrilling matches.
Doug

See my comments in red.