8 Ball Rules BCA

[WesleyW]

Our league teams have decided that whoever breaks also racks their own balls. It's not my rule but it is what we do. We usually wish each other luck before the game and shake hands after the game is over.

I started the game by responding to the opossing team cap't that it was my turn to play. I don't think it's my responsiblilty to find my opponent when his own team cap't said to start and HE didn't know where his player was.

Why do you say it isn't a foul?

It's not a foul, because you can't start the game without opponent. I would have reracked the balls and break again, but that's a second choice. If the team captain tell you to start, my first choice is, you should have told him that you can't start if there is no opponent. Tell him to search for the player, and if it takes too long, you will take the points. Starting without opponent just makes no sense.

If you are still proceding to say it's a foul or loss of game, why did you stopped after the break? You should have continued to play the rack, after the break. If there is no opponent or referee, nobody can call a foul on you, so you can still proceed to run the rack, even when you miss a ball or make a foul. I know, this might sound crazy, but there is no rule saying you can't do this. I only doubt this would ever happen

 

[cleary]

So as showing up late in your match.

I played in an apa league similar to this last year. When a game was over, the two captains would get together and put up another two players for a match. They would call out who was playing. Now if my opponent was in the rest room or outside smoking or getting a drink at the bar at the time this was called.... and didnt hear his name, it might take him a few minutes to know he even had a game. I wouldn't be happy waiting around for him, but I surely wouldn't start the match without him, because that would be a little messed up.

 

[Luxury]

Yep you defenitely called, "foul." without knowing whether it was a foul or not. Bad.

You defenitely started a match without your opponent. Bad.

So bad ediquette.

Don't you hate it when you are so sure that you were right only to find out you were wrong?

 

[hang-the-9]

First off.... why did you break the balls when him away from the table? Did he rack the balls and then walk across the room? Was this in the middle of a set or just one game? I just don't think there is enough information here to really point the finger.

If your in the middle of a set, he racks and walks away.... then comes back and does this, yes, its a foul.... and very stupid.

If you have yet to play a game or it was racked by someone else and you just break.... then I point the finger at you.

If you're in the middle of running balls and he walks away, he is asking for trouble. But if he doesn't even know the game has started, then I don't seem him in the fault.

I agree with this post, why did the game start when the other player was not aware of it? Did he rack then walk off? If he came into the table unaware the game was on and picked up the balls, I would have called No Foul and re-racked. Whoever broke had no business doing so without the other person present, unless that person walked off after the racking of the balls to start the match, and was aware the game was in progress.

 

[softshot]

My advice would be never break a rack without your opponent at the table...

sometimes a guy's gotta take a leak... your impatience caused the confusion..

I ALWAYS look my opponent in the eye, shake their hand, and THEN break the balls...

I would find it more unsportsmanlike to start a game and have your opponent come to the table ignorant of how many shots you have taken what balls you may or may not have moved..no knowledge whatsoever as to whether or not you have committed any fouls, and expect them to simply take your word for it..

You need all players present before you can initiate a sportsmanlike game.IMO

 

[TXsouthpaw]

The break is made and no balls are pocketed. The opposing player is called from across the room to come to the table to play. He comes to the table and starts to pick up the balls, two to be exact ( this is after the break). He is told this is the real game. He puts the balls back where he thought they were.

This is obviously a foul, at least. Is it loss of game?

Punch em in his face, that'll make him pay attention next time.

 

[cardiac kid]

Hi Dawgie,

In the BCAPL rule book, there is a section titled "applied rulings". Your answer may be there. Also, Bill Stock of BCAPL posts here. Send him a private message.

Lyn

 

[chefjeff]

I would've said, "Are you ready to play, yet?" And then proceeded to re-rack and re-break. After all, your opponent wasn't even at the table yet, so the match really hadn't even started yet, imho.

A re-rack comes in handy in league play sometimes. It allows each player a do-over and tends to eliminate these types of arguments.

Jeff Livingston

 

[tatcat2000]

Official BCAPL Response

Hi Dawgie,

Your situation has bee discussed with the BCAPL National Office and they have determined a ruling. It is based on the description of the events in post#11. However, there are many other possible variables, so (all readers) please make sure to pay attention to the entire post.

The most important variable is any formal league rules modifications or additions that may be in effect that we are unaware of. Any such modification or addition may invalidate the ruling described here for application in your league. Also, the ruling given here may not necessarily apply at a BCAPL tournament (discussion to follow).

Another variable is the offender's intent. The ruling here assumes that it was an honest mistake and there was no unsportsmanlike intent.

Finally, for the question which several posters have drawn attention to: whether the game should have been started without the opponent present. For the people that are adamant that the game should not have started: regardless of that issue, that particular point had been passed, and a ruling still has to be made on the issue at hand. More on starting the game without the opponent in a moment.

As some posters have observed, the situation doesn't fit neatly into a rule. When that happens, rulings and penalties are sometimes improvised.

Ruling: Foul. You are awarded ball in hand. No kitchen restriction since the foul occurred in the inning after the break. For the balls that were picked up, you have the option of either: spotting the balls or having the balls pocketed (unless one of them was the 8-ball, which must be spotted).

The options for the disturbed balls are out of the norm, but so was the offense. A re-rack is not an option.

Please note again that there is an assumption of no unsportsmanlike intent. If there were, penalties could be different or more severe.

As for starting without your opponent, while it's not a good idea it's easy to see how that principle might get relaxed in league play. In BCAPL tournament play, you should never start without your opponent present, and a team captain has no authority to tell you to do so. If you have racked and are ready to break and your opponent is not present, summon a referee immediately. Your opponent will then be under scrutiny to be present at the table in a timely manner, and if they are not then they are at risk of forfeiting the game.

When developing a ruling, the BCAPL's first step is to see if the intent of any existing rule effectively covers the situation. If so, it's pretty easy. If not, they piece together the intent of the most applicable rules and combine them with what they deem to be appropriate penalties. Rules considered in this process were: 1.33.7; Applied Ruling 1.33; 1.40 and additional changes and Applied Rulings that will appear in the 2008-2009 BCAPL Rule Book.

This specific situation will addressed soon in an Applied Ruling on the BCAPL web site and in the 2009-2010 edition of the BCAPL rule book.



Buddy Eick, BCAPL National Senior Referee and
BCAPL Referee Training Coordinator
bca_referee@yahoo.com

 The contents of this post refer to BCA Pool League (BCAPL) Rules only. The BCAPL National Office has authorized me to act in an official capacity regarding questions about BCAPL Rules matters in this forum.
 The BCAPL has no association with the Billiard Congress of America (BCA) other than in their capacity as a member of the BCA.
 No reference to, inference concerning, or comment on any other set of rules (WPA, APA, VNEA, TAP, or any other set of rules, public or private) is intended or should be derived from this post unless specifically stated.
 Not every imaginable rules issue has been addressed by the BCAPL. Nor will it ever be, as evidenced by the seemingly endless situations that people dream up or that (more frequently) actually happen. If I do not have the answer to a question I will tell you so, then I will get a ruling from the BCAPL National Office and get back to you as soon as I can. If deemed appropriate, that ruling will then be added to the "Applied Rulings" section of The Official Rules of the BCA Pool League.

 

[crosseyedjoe]

there you have it, it's clear as muddy water.