8 Ball Rules Question

David in FL said:
I stand corrected!

APA is that goofy! 😂
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And apparently so is CSI.
"If a game has ended and then the players realize they shot the wrong groups, the game is not replayed and the result stands."​

So your unsportsmanlike attempt to cheat was successful either way. Congratulations, you win.
 
It is only unsportsmanlike if you knew you had shot the wrong group and did not out yourself, thereby attempting to cheat. Cheating implies intent, and it would be very ballsy to go ahead and shoot the wrong group hoping that your opponent would not notice.

The rule is likely written that way, like a previous poster said, to put the onus on each player to pay attention to their game. In our amateur league it has proven to be a real challenge to get the members to do that...some are serious about the game but a number are more interested in drinking and having a good time.
 
APA Operator said:
And apparently so is CSI.
"If a game has ended and then the players realize they shot the wrong groups, the game is not replayed and the result stands."​

So your unsportsmanlike attempt to cheat was successful either way. Congratulations, you win.
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Apparently so!

Who knew?! 😂
 
Protractor said:
Ok, in addition to you fouling, the non-shooting player on the other team that spoke up also committed a foul - coaching! During a team play match under CSI rules, and VNEA (pretty sure APA says the same thing) no team member is permitted to coach or advise another team member who is at the table. If your situation were to have happened during a refereed match, you would have then needed to call the ref over to sort it out.

Our league team took 1st at the last VNEA state tournament (we are now BCAPL). During one of the games, their player committed a foul (did not hit a rail) but did not out themselves, so play was continuing because our shooter (me!) did not catch it. When this was observed by the other team one of their members took a chair next to our table just to listen in to make sure that one of our team members did not clue me in. So I shot a jump shot instead of getting ball in hand and won the rack anyways but obviously I wasn't paying close enough attention.
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APA says anyone can remind the player that a foul occurred - less cutthroat than others, which is good, considering the audience.
 
Protractor said:
It is only unsportsmanlike if you knew you had shot the wrong group and did not out yourself, thereby attempting to cheat. Cheating implies intent, and it would be very ballsy to go ahead and shoot the wrong group hoping that your opponent would not notice.

The rule is likely written that way, like a previous poster said, to put the onus on each player to pay attention to their game. In our amateur league it has proven to be a real challenge to get the members to do that...some are serious about the game but a number are more interested in drinking and having a good time.
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My reply was to this message:
So, my opponent has one ball left. When he’s distracted, I pot his ball followed immediately by the 8 Ball.​
​
I win! 😁​

Looks like an obvious attempt to cheat to me. Except in APA, the whole opposing team has to be distracted, and anyone on the shooter's team who's paying attention shares in the cheating. I find that there's hardly ever a case of a cheating player on an honest team.
 
In my 50 years of playing pool I have never seen anyone deliberately shoot the wrong group. My guess would be that it typically happens due to a brain fart.

Yeah, not a fan of the APA or any other amateur only league. Our local "city" non-sanctioned leagues have some really goofy rules. Thankfully our league just moved from VNEA to BCAPL. Yes, I know that BCAPL is amateur but at least we are playing by standardized rules.
 
A guy I know did this in league one time, he was a very weak player btw, and I found it kinda funny. He noticed his opponent shooting the wrong balls, waited until his opponent ran all the balls and was on the 8-ball, then called a foul. Took ball in hand for a straight in shot on the 8.

I've also seen him keep shooting on obvious flukes.

Also one time, his opponent was on a break-and-run, just had to cut the 8 into the side. The cue ball would be tracking towards the corner, but there were a couple balls blocking the pocket, so there was almost no way to scratch. Somehow, the cue ball managed to hit off of those couple balls and just roll in the pocket. This guy jumps out of his chair and cheers with his fists in the air.

Anyway this guy isn't a bad guy really, he's just a very weak player that doesn't understand the etiquette of pool. He, as a person, reminds me a lot of George Costanza.
 
geoff_182 said:
A guy I know did this in league one time, he was a very weak player btw, and I found it kinda funny. He noticed his opponent shooting the wrong balls, waited until his opponent ran all the balls and was on the 8-ball, then called a foul. Took ball in hand for a straight in shot on the 8.

I've also seen him keep shooting on obvious flukes.

Also one time, his opponent was on a break-and-run, just had to cut the 8 into the side. The cue ball would be tracking towards the corner, but there were a couple balls blocking the pocket, so there was almost no way to scratch. Somehow, the cue ball managed to hit off of those couple balls and just roll in the pocket. This guy jumps out of his chair and cheers with his fists in the air.

Anyway this guy isn't a bad guy really, he's just a very weak player that doesn't understand the etiquette of pool. He, as a person, reminds me a lot of George Costanza.
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LoL... we have a few of those types on our league. He was definitely bending the ethics on that one.

We are doing a "pool school" clinic on the 7th on fundamentals and the first thing on the list is etiquette. Me and another good shooter are going to do a little play acting at the table while the third guy is going to be the commentator. I am playing the a**hole, bringing back some bad behavior from my sharking days!
 
Okay, I am going to have to expose myself here. Two weeks in a row, I shot at the wrong ball. I thought I was solids when I was stripes or vise-versa. On the last case, I made the final stripe, and then the 8-ball. Once the 8-ball dropped, I got the "nice shot but you were solids" comment, and the loss of the session. My teammates said they couldn't say anything because it would have been considered an "illegal coach"...

Age sucks..
 
geoff_182 said:
A guy I know did this in league one time, he was a very weak player btw, and I found it kinda funny. He noticed his opponent shooting the wrong balls, waited until his opponent ran all the balls and was on the 8-ball, then called a foul. Took ball in hand for a straight in shot on the 8.
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This is exactly why you can't save a foul to call later, at least in normal non-league modified rules. Not sure if any league allows players to call a foul after another ball is played, but won't be surprised if there was.
 
tg_vegas said:
Okay, I am going to have to expose myself here. Two weeks in a row, I shot at the wrong ball. I thought I was solids when I was stripes or vise-versa. On the last case, I made the final stripe, and then the 8-ball. Once the 8-ball dropped, I got the "nice shot but you were solids" comment, and the loss of the session. My teammates said they couldn't say anything because it would have been considered an "illegal coach"...

Age sucks..
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My view is your opponent was acting in an unsportsmanlike manner by seeing that you were shooting his group and failing to call it. I don't know what rules you are playing under but under CSI rules you won because only one of the two players noticed it and failed to call it. I would have called a ref in that situation.

Walking back up to the table and shooting the wrong group just means you don't have your head in the game. I've seen plenty make that mistake that could not be considered old. What are you thinking about that is causing you to lose focus?
 
I hear ya. It is even worse when you are running a league, like me, and also trying play. Kinda like herding cats, but cats play nicer :LOL:
This is my third year of doing that, and my last. I've been doing it so that the local players in this rural mountain area have a league to play in. Got it built up and organized to the point that I can hand it off and have a young guy lined that wants to take it over. Not sure I am even going to play in it next year cause I don't like the league format. I went 30 years as a lone wolf, before ever playing in a league. Would rather play tournaments/races, and higher level players.

The most rewarding part of it has been doing the pool school clinics and seeing upcoming players that accepted the coaching noticeably up their game, so I'll stay with coaching/instruction no matter what.
 
Protractor said:
The most rewarding part of it has been doing the pool school clinics and seeing upcoming players that accepted the coaching noticeably up their game, so I'll stay with coaching/instruction no matter what.
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Very nice. Thanks for promoting the sport.
 
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