8ball Break Question
- Thread starter LastTwo
- Start date
Hitting the second row of the rack usually is an attempt to pocket the 8 ball, winning on the break depending on which rules your playing by. Personally i feel it gives less of a scatter, but i will break like that if i see someone slug racks me with only the apex ball loose.
I used to hit the 2nd ball, breaking from the side rail.
Often I would play for a second collision, drawing the CB into the side rail and back into the pack. This would result in a better spread obviously.
I didn't break the 8 in that frequently though (on several different tables). Although it did move more.
Just my experience...
Often I would play for a second collision, drawing the CB into the side rail and back into the pack. This would result in a better spread obviously.
I didn't break the 8 in that frequently though (on several different tables). Although it did move more.
Just my experience...
LastTwo said:
The 2nd ball is supposed to make the 8 more often. I thought hitting on the 3rd ball was illegal.
article by Blackjack
here is an article by Blackjack about this break. never used an image before, so i hope it shows up. if not, go to
http://img14.imgspot.com/u/05/87/14/8BallBreak2ndBall.GIF
hmmmmm. the image was supposed to be here, and on the screen in front of me i have the url in the img tag, but it doesn't show up.
here is an article by Blackjack about this break. never used an image before, so i hope it shows up. if not, go to
http://img14.imgspot.com/u/05/87/14/8BallBreak2ndBall.GIF
hmmmmm. the image was supposed to be here, and on the screen in front of me i have the url in the img tag, but it doesn't show up.
Last edited:
LastTwo said:
It's simply a different break. If hitting the head ball doesn't make a ball on the break, then going to the second ball might increase your chances.
In the days of 8-ball on the break wins, the second ball break worked well on bar tables, but personally, I made as many on the second ball break as the head ball break. More importantly is that break and running hitting the head ball was about the same percentage as hitting the second ball. So, choosing the one that made balls was paramount.
Fred
Front vs. Side
If you are breaking good with a front break and
making a ball, I think the scatter is the best, but
if the table is sluggish a little, or you are scattering
them without making one on the front break, THEN
the side break can be more reliable, and although the
scatter may not be quite as good, it can still be good
enough to run the balls, and sometimes a side break
will scatter JUST as good as a front break, just not
as often. I have seen guys beat their head on the wall
trying to front break, and never making a ball, while
I will side break, make a ball or two, and be able to
continue my run. It can mean the difference in the
match. You must make a judgement call of odds in
front vs. side break depending on how the balls are,
how they are racking, and table conditions.
If you are breaking good with a front break and
making a ball, I think the scatter is the best, but
if the table is sluggish a little, or you are scattering
them without making one on the front break, THEN
the side break can be more reliable, and although the
scatter may not be quite as good, it can still be good
enough to run the balls, and sometimes a side break
will scatter JUST as good as a front break, just not
as often. I have seen guys beat their head on the wall
trying to front break, and never making a ball, while
I will side break, make a ball or two, and be able to
continue my run. It can mean the difference in the
match. You must make a judgement call of odds in
front vs. side break depending on how the balls are,
how they are racking, and table conditions.
Sweet Marissa
www.Bella-Muse.com
I didn't know that hitting the second ball was a legal break. Will the IPT allow breaking from the side rail or just break from the box? If it's the latter, is there a better way to break the balls? How many balls have to hit a rail or be pocketed for it to be a legal break?
gregory said:here is an article by Blackjack about this break. never used an image before, so i hope it shows up. if not, go to
http://img14.imgspot.com/u/05/87/14/8BallBreak2ndBall.GIF
hmmmmm. the image was supposed to be here, and on the screen in front of me i have the url in the img tag, but it doesn't show up.
I have permanantly shut down my website which is why the links do not work properly.
Here is the Diagram
How come Blackjack? You had a lot of great info on yur site......
I have went back to breaking 2nd and 3rd ball back starting before Vegas last May. A roadplayer told me you have less chance of scratching on the break and you will make a ball. So I spent 6 hours in 3 days charting my breaks. One hour 2nd ball back, one hour headon. The practice and charting also was for me the grade the spread for a runout as well.
As Blackjacks attachment indicated with the cue going off of the rail it gets out of the way of any incidental contact and sets you up in great position. (I hate it when you squat whitey head on, only to have another ball knock it in.)
Also as Bandit brought up with a harder break you can actually break the rack twice.
I digress... I found that with a controlled side break on the 2nd ball I made more balls and fouled less while trying to acheive the same spread. I was pretty surprised.
I have found two different breaking speeds as well (both mentioned above by other posters.) It depends on what the tables giving me that particular night on which speed to use. Yet I would just like to add that sometimes those breaks will not work on certain equipment on certain nights. I will try the 3rd ball back and then go to the headon.
By the way ask Joe Tucker about the 3rd ball back. I agree with him from his book more eights on the break from that position of the rack than any other. The funny thing I noticed when you make the eight on the break from the 3rd ball back the spread is usually good giving a good cance to runout.
I suggest everyone experiment a little with accuracy first with Blackjacks break putting whitey in great position. Because the worst thing you can do is to catch a little of the headball
As Blackjacks attachment indicated with the cue going off of the rail it gets out of the way of any incidental contact and sets you up in great position. (I hate it when you squat whitey head on, only to have another ball knock it in.)
Also as Bandit brought up with a harder break you can actually break the rack twice.
I digress... I found that with a controlled side break on the 2nd ball I made more balls and fouled less while trying to acheive the same spread. I was pretty surprised.
I have found two different breaking speeds as well (both mentioned above by other posters.) It depends on what the tables giving me that particular night on which speed to use. Yet I would just like to add that sometimes those breaks will not work on certain equipment on certain nights. I will try the 3rd ball back and then go to the headon.
By the way ask Joe Tucker about the 3rd ball back. I agree with him from his book more eights on the break from that position of the rack than any other. The funny thing I noticed when you make the eight on the break from the 3rd ball back the spread is usually good giving a good cance to runout.
I suggest everyone experiment a little with accuracy first with Blackjacks break putting whitey in great position. Because the worst thing you can do is to catch a little of the headball
The last I read hitting the second or even the third ball back is a Foul unless the rule has changed and as far as I know the one and only advantage it gives is the 8 ball is more likely to move and be pocketed If I am wrong please inform me of the set of written rules that you are going by
Poolhalljunkie said:
BCA Rules
4.5 LEGAL BREAK SHOT
(Defined) To execute a legal break, the breaker (with the cue ball behind the head string) must either (1) pocket a ball, or (2) drive at least four numbered balls to the rail. When the breaker fails to make a legal break, it is a foul, and the incoming player has the option of (1) accepting the table in position and shooting, or (2) having the balls re-racked and having the option of shooting the opening break or allowing the offending player to re-break.
APA rules
3. Breaking: Players must break from behind the head string. To be a legal break, the head ball or second ball must be struck first and at least four balls must be driven to the rails or a ball must be pocketed. The cue ball may not be shot into a rail before the rack. An attempt to break does not count unless the rack is broken as above. Otherwise, the balls are re-racked and re-broken by the same player. A game not legally broken, but resulting in a scratch or a foul, will be re-racked and broken by the opposite player. THE RACK MUST BE STRUCK BEFORE A FOUL CAN OCCUR. Breaking safe or soft is not allowed. The League Operator may make judgments and issue penalties to teams and players who are not breaking hard. Breaking just hard enough to comply with this rule is not a guarantee against penalties. Remember, break as hard as you can with control.
seiyaryu55 said:
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