9-ball safety break (APA)

hobokenapa

hobokenapa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Has anyone experimented with a safe break in 9-ball? I'm trying to embrace APA 9-ball, but when spotting 30 balls against an SL6, it's impossible to win when you are not making a ball from the break and leaving a wide open table (or making a ball and getting hooked). The luck factor in the break decides every match. The optimum strategy has to be to play safe from the break. Has anyone tried this, or got any ideas? I am thinking maybe hitting the 1-ball half ball and stunning the cue ball across the table onto the bottom rail and sending the 1-ball up table to the top rail??
 
hobokenapa said:
Has anyone experimented with a safe break in 9-ball? I'm trying to embrace APA 9-ball, but when spotting 30 balls against an SL6, it's impossible to win when you are not making a ball from the break and leaving a wide open table (or making a ball and getting hooked). The luck factor in the break decides every match. The optimum strategy has to be to play safe from the break. Has anyone tried this, or got any ideas? I am thinking maybe hitting the 1-ball half ball and stunning the cue ball across the table onto the bottom rail and sending the 1-ball up table to the top rail??
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Whats wrong with a push-out?

Not to mention that 4? balls need to hit a rail on the break.
 
No pushouts in APA

I think sooner or later you're gonna get some good advice here. And its probably gonna go something like this...

Why not just find "Joe Tucker's Racking Secrets" and learn how to more consistently pocket balls on the break.

What happens if you do pocket a ball? Youre "safe" break theory has just hurt your chances even more.
It is entirely possible to hit the 1ball square, drive 4 balls to a rail, and control the cueball; but not by swinging as hard as you possibly can.
 
I'm not familiar with the APA 9ball rules, but I'd be very surprised to learn that safe breaking is allowed. If winning your matches is important to you, I guess you should work on your break. Tucker's book is a good idea.
 
Safe breaking is not allowed.

Even if it was, it would be nearly impossible to pull it off with the 4 ball to the rail rule.

I would advise to practice your break, control the rock and pocket a ball and don't think you have to play out of the world to be a higher SL. Just play your game and don't try to play beyond what your skilll level is.
 
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hobokenapa said:
Has anyone experimented with a safe break in 9-ball? I'm trying to embrace APA 9-ball, but when spotting 30 balls against an SL6, it's impossible to win when you are not making a ball from the break and leaving a wide open table (or making a ball and getting hooked). The luck factor in the break decides every match. The optimum strategy has to be to play safe from the break. Has anyone tried this, or got any ideas? I am thinking maybe hitting the 1-ball half ball and stunning the cue ball across the table onto the bottom rail and sending the 1-ball up table to the top rail??
Click to expand...

Safety breaks are not allowed in APA. The rules state you must break as "hard as you can with control". This is a part of the APA philosophy. Your opponent is at the same disadvantage as you. You are obviously an SL9, giving 30 balls to a 6. There is a reason you are a 9. If the 6 breaks dry, you can run the table much easier than he can.
 
I go back and forth about the APA. The rules are without a doubt designed to give lower skill leveled players as much of an advantage as possible, but they're the same for everyone. When I'm "forth," I've decided that it's just another challenge.

Truthfully, the APA has improved my safety and escape game immensely. There's less room for error, so I'm forced to really weigh the percentages. And, I've got to be able to turn the tables in a safety battle if I want to win.

I usually approach the rack like this: If I'm going to have to make a tough shot to break a ball out, I start looking for the safety in the rack. I'll run a couple balls and play safe if I have to, but I'll be damned if I'm going to give that person a decent look at the table. If I can play position on the safety easier than I can play position on the run out, then I'm gonna play safe...always.

When I do screw up (more often than I'd like), I know that no 6 is going to play perfect pool if they want to stay a 6 for long (or on the rare occasssion, if they're truly a 6). So, I figure that when they miss or play safe, it's up to me to turn the tables back around again.

As for making balls on the break, if you're not making them as a 9, then it's gonna be hard for the 6 to make them too. If they are making balls and you're not, then take a look at how they're breaking...where from?, how hard?, what does the cue ball do after it hits the rack?, etc. I've often found that a 70% break on a bar table gets me much better results than bashing the hell out of them. (figured that out by watching the 3s and 4s with "weak" breaks, who couldn't help but make a ball or two every time).

Anyway, that's my take on it. Hope at least one thing that I've said helps someone on here. Otherwise, maybe it was just a rant for self reassurance that playing in the APA is really what I want to be doing 2 nights a week. ;)
 
Good Advice

jongreve said:
No pushouts in APA

I think sooner or later you're gonna get some good advice here. And its probably gonna go something like this...

Why not just find "Joe Tucker's Racking Secrets" and learn how to more consistently pocket balls on the break.

What happens if you do pocket a ball? Youre "safe" break theory has just hurt your chances even more.
It is entirely possible to hit the 1ball square, drive 4 balls to a rail, and control the cueball; but not by swinging as hard as you possibly can.
Click to expand...

IMO 9 ball is much easier to pocket a ball off the break. Get the Tucker book....it's filled with great advice and will help you spotting someone trying to "Cheat" the rack.
 
s'portplayer said:
Safe breaking is not allowed.

Even if it was, it would be nearly impossible to pull it off with the 4 ball to the rail rule....
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Put the cue ball a little off-center. Hit the one ball half-ball on the far side so the cue ball goes off the side rail and down to the foot rail. Hit just hard enough to get four balls to the cushion. If you perfect this, I think the LO will react pretty much as people have reacted to Corey Deuel's break techniques -- they will ban it.

Alternatively, draw the cue ball straight back to freeze it on the head rail. Minimize speed while getting four balls to the cushions.
 
This is NOT an APA bash, but IMO APA nine ball really blows for a SL8 or SL9. We had a guy on our team (my billiard mentor) who was nothing but an SL9. He would seem to be pocketing no less than five or six balls at a time, and still lose by a massive split.

And yes, for a good nine ball player on a bar table the break was a great way end to a long run. Even if you make a ball, having a good shot with all the congestion on the table is rare. Oh, and no pushout.

That said, some of the most memorable matches I've played have been APA nine ball. It can be a blast, but not always for the higher SLs from what I've seen.

They really want to push the better nine ball players out with the rules the way they are, not to mention that you must still be under the 23 team point rule, and with a SL9, well, that leaves 14 other team SL points spread amung four shooters. That doesn't exactly leave a lot of room for other skilled shooters.
 
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Possible

yes, a safety break is possible. For example, hitting the 1 ball from the right side and to the right of straight on, brings the 1 uptable, and have low left english on the cue will send the cue ball to the foot rail while still getting 4 balls to a rail (remember 4 balls includes the cue ball).

Players will use this break sometimes against a good open table runout artist, but one that can not bank good, kick good, or very good at safeties. Therefore, you are attacking your opponent's weak points of the game.

These opponents, many times, are players that have learned the game by competition, and bypassed the fundamental building blocks of the game, in other words, they can make balls, but know little else. Lots of players that learned the game from playing in bars are this way.
 
jongreve said:
No pushouts in APA

I think sooner or later you're gonna get some good advice here. And its probably gonna go something like this...

Why not just find "Joe Tucker's Racking Secrets" and learn how to more consistently pocket balls on the break.

QUOTE]


Kudos!!!!!!! Helped me plenty of times with them banger racks!!! Find the 4 ball track and your good to go!
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Feel the pain I'm a SL8 and if I don't break well I give a SL6 the match (to many opportunities) or at least a close enough loss so my win doesn't do well team points wise.

As a SL9 you break better than you think I had a season where I dropped to a SL6 got my break working (didn't scratch) and went back to a SL8 again.

Joe Tucker's book or DVD "Racking Secrets" is the way to go. It changed the way I break now that the mystery of where to break is gone just focus on controlling the cue ball.
 
agreed. you DO break better than you probably think (having seen your break first hand...hobokenapa). i think i mentioned this to you at league before, in vegas last year i played a mini tournament against a SL9 who would break from the right, the 1 misses the center pocket by 2 inches and sits on the top middle diamond, the cue screws off the side rail and sits on the bottom middle diamond. never made a ball. very frustrating. and he nailed that break almost EVERY time.
Having tried to figure it out, unsucessfully might i add, i have resorted back to smashing the 1 ball head on, center ball, and trying to leave the cueball in the middle of the table. sometimes it works out. but if i lose the cueball at all theres a decent chance im not getting a shot at the 1.
I dont necessarily agree with the "push-outs favor the stronger players" theory. it benefits/hinders both players, no two scenarios are the same, and a low ranked player should be allowed to learn the benefits of how to execute a solid push shot in my opinion
 
Thanks for the input guys. I actually have Racking Secrets, but I really don't want to be studying racks. This is APA, and it is a fun League. However, I will definitely go back and review the info in the DVD.

Making a ball consistently is probably the best way to go I (now) agree. If you are hooked, then you can just tied up the 3 or 4 and limit your opponent to 2 points.

I came home after the aforementioned night, and my girlfriend reminded me that it is a HANDICAPPED League, and you should not expect to win every week (unlike 8-ball which is very heavily weighted to the SL7s favor). My frustration was that I played lights out in that match, but could not 'control' it because of the luck factor in the break. The reality is the luck factor is so high because my break is not consistent. The way to eliminate the luck factor from the break is simply to learn to break better.
 
snookerish said:
I dont necessarily agree with the "push-outs favor the stronger players" theory. it benefits/hinders both players, no two scenarios are the same, and a low ranked player should be allowed to learn the benefits of how to execute a solid push shot in my opinion
Click to expand...

I think the basis for that theory is that stronger players will be better educated on when and where to push out, and they'll be more likely to execute effectively. Once a weaker player learns how to use a push out to their advantage, in theory they will shoot better scores, and move up the skill level ladder.

I agree with you though, there's no reason why every player shouldn't learn about push outs and how to use them.

I wonder if they're at all concerned about it holding up the matches. The rules and handicap system seem to encourage offensive play, and one of the benefits of that seems to be that matches don't last as long because of it. Who knows?
 
I totally agree that the higher player will execute a better push out most of the time. But if I was a lower ranked player and was allowed to hit a push, and a SL9 strolls up and cracks the 1ball in the pocket I would immediately ask myself what i did wrong, and how i will avoid it next time. realising that there will be a spot on the table that even that SL9 would struggle from is all part of learning the game in my opinion.
I think it's admirable that the APA want to give the lower player a way to get the upper hand and win games against the top hitters, cos then they go home feeling proud and excited and their lust for the game increases.
on Hobekenapa's point - agreed, if i'm hooked after the break against a lower player then i'm putting as much distance between the 1 and 2 as i can, or the 3 and 4. limit the damage and force an error. unfortunately at the moment that's the best i can do, or at least until i learn to break consistently.
On that note, i was at Amsterdam last night watching team 9ball. I watched Mika play. He averaged 2/3 balls on the break, left the cueball in the middle of the table every time, and not once hooked himself on the 1ball. i know he's a great pro and has unbelievable time dedicated to his game, but still, it was pretty disgusting!
 
Agreed. It should be part of learning the game. It's sometimes strange to me where the APA has chosen to pick it's battles. They've worked so hard to educate players - both weak and strong - about defensive shots and made them a big part of the APA game and handicapping system. But, they've eliminated one of the most effective defensive shots in 9-ball.

It would be intersting to know how the Equalizer came to be what it is. I'm sure there was a pretty involved process that they used to create it, and I'm guessing that having that knowledge would answer a lot of my questions about why things are the way they are. I suppose I'll never know those things unless i end up working at the national headquarters in St. Louis (not likely).
 
If you want to learn about the Equalizer, there are plenty of threads about that. Its nothing so complex that you can't figure out with some logic and Excel knowledge.

I haven't seen Mika break.. I will watch him on Thursday at team 9-ball..
 
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