A return to tradition

There are real advantages /shrug The science does not lie. You may consider it trivial but, nonetheless, its an advantage that is there to be used...

What about never having to relearn a new shaft again for the rest of your life? Keep the same shaft specs on every cue you ever buy and there will be no learning curve... you will play the same with any cue from the jump...


The spin factor is enough for me to give up the feel of the hit. Not having to aim at the opposite side of the OB, on a long shot, is worth it alone. Compensating a half inch is alot easier than 3 inches... In addition, the shaft spins better so I can hit closer to the center to get good spin. Closer to center always makes my aim more precise. Think of all the variables you minimize by hitting closer to center...


To me, the game becomes a little less complicated useing engineered shafts. At least from my point of view and the way I approach the game...
 
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Pushout said:
All a matter of opinion. I've been able to do anything with a solid maple shaft that I could do with a laminated shaft. {predator}
That "real advantage" is hype and all in your head.
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You may well be able to do anything with a traditional shaft that you can do with a LD shaft but the LD shaft's reduction in deflection/squirt is based on extensive scientific research that has not been seriously disputed as far as I know.

If you are aware of credible challenges to the research, I would be interested in being pointed to it.

So, the "advantage" of reducing a known variable is not "hype"...subject to any credible challenges, of course.

And I suggest that just because Mosconi or any other player with exceptional skills can overcome the variables does not mean that everyone can or that the benefits to "the rest of us" are non-existent or "hype."

Regards,
Jim
 
JoeyInCali said:
Any good cuemaker can make a reasonably low deflecting shaft without the hollowed end and ultra soft ferrule.
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You must have tested A LOT of cues in order to make that statement.

But please just post the results of scientific studies accomplished on just two such cue maker's shafts.

Regards,
Jim
 
The way I understand it, Mosconi rarely hit the ball far enough off center for it to make a difference.
 
David Beck said:
Imagine what Mosconi could have done with an OB-1. :eek: :D
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His hi-run would be at 69kajillian and he'd be establishing the break ball for the next rack....


on topic: after giving LD shafts limited trail periods I'm back to conventional shafts. The transition from LD to conventional is painless. My LD rankings based on limited experience:

ob-1
I-2
pred
pred z
 
Slasher said:
The point of feedback to your hand and ultimately your brain is that is how we learn and adjust, without it your brain does not know how to interpret the signal versus the reaction and make the adjustment.
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Respectfully, I disagree. The outcome of the shot is the feedback that counts. The tactile sensation in your hands is just personal preference and there IS tactile feel with my Pred...it's just DIFFERENT feel...not better or worse IMHO.

Having said that, I agree that "different" can be "bad" if the person doesn't like the difference. But again, that is entirely personal preference and in no way "fundamental."

What IS fundamental is the credibly tested reduction in deflection which absolutely reduces a variable...unless someone can post credible test results on a range of traditional shafts that disputes the LD shaft test results.

Again, SVB can beat most of us with a broomstick but that does not recommend a broomstick to the rest of us. Give me AUTOMATIC reduction in a known variable that influences the path of the CB and I am a buyer all day.

Regards,
Jim
 
For the record I go back and forth fairly often and don't have much trouble doing it. I've waiting on a custom cue that I'm expecting to be my next full time player so I'm pulling a different cue about monthly so as to not get 'used' to anything. :P .

This month I'm back with a sold OG maple shaft. In about an hour of hitting balls I was back in. I also like the feedback a solid shaft gives but I do think my Lams are more consistant across the board. It gives me a bit more confidence when I have to really work the cue ball (not that often). Seems like they are easier to estimate the outcome when in un-natural territory.

Just to be safe the new cue will have 2 OG maples and an OB1 to cover all grounds. :)
 
screw all of it!! I'm going to go back to playing with a mace! :)

When Predator came out I tried one in the first year of production and could NOT make a ball with them. I went back to my trusted Schons. 3 weeks ago I got an OB-1 from fellow board member Shinobi, and I havn't looked back. OK thats a lie, I "looked back" yesterday for about 10 shots with my most excellent Schon shaft and quickly switched back. I LOVED my old skool Schon shafts and the sweet "ping" sound they make....you know what?, the OB-1 I got makes the same sound, feels SLIGHTLY heavier, and gives me all the feedback I need.

My scientific proof?<<<<< I can aim a table length, slight angle shot with center ball and load it up with inside......and I don't have to adjust my aim point. This same shot used to give me fits with my old cue. I don't care what anyone sais....you CAN'T do that with a standard shaft.....and don't get me wrong, I'm as old skool as it gets when it comes to cues.


Gerry
 
I like low deflection because it makes the game easier, shots more predictable, but I don't like Predator.

I started with a mid-priced standard cue (Jim Davis) with a traditional maple shaft. Put a 1st series 314 on it and improved my game because deflection was not a big deal anymore, even on longer shots.
But the 314 was really aggessive and most balls I've missed with it were easy rolls into the side where I wasn't concentrated at all, even didn't take the stance serious.
The 314 was unforgiving on unintented english if you did't take it serious.

Now I wanted a real crafted cue and decided on a Mezz with WD700.
It plays like a maple shaft, deflection is comparable with the 314

I'll never touch a Predator again, the Mezz really fits to me and will last for 10 years or so.
The next step is a Vollmer Custom when I'm old and rich :D
Had the chance to shoot one and it's also good with deflection with the normal maple shaft crafted by Michael Vollmer
 
tommy84 said:
I like low deflection because it makes the game easier, shots more predictable, but I don't like Predator.

I started with a mid-priced standard cue (Jim Davis) with a traditional maple shaft. Put a 1st series 314 on it and improved my game because deflection was not a big deal anymore, even on longer shots.
But the 314 was really aggessive and most balls I've missed with it were easy rolls into the side where I wasn't concentrated at all, even didn't take the stance serious.
The 314 was unforgiving on unintented english if you did't take it serious.

Now I wanted a real crafted cue and decided on a Mezz with WD700.
It plays like a maple shaft, deflection is comparable with the 314

I'll never touch a Predator again, the Mezz really fits to me and will last for 10 years or so.
The next step is a Vollmer Custom when I'm old and rich :D
Had the chance to shoot one and it's also good with deflection with the normal maple shaft crafted by Michael Vollmer
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Were the TIPS on the cues you experimented with all the same and shaped to the same radius?

The tips are, of course, a major factor in imparting spin.

Regards,
Jim
 
The real advantage I get out of an OB1 is spin. I can apply ALOT more spin with it and I don't have to go so far out, on the CB
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Sorry, but no, you can't. Spin is determined by where you hit the CB, not what you hit it with.

pj
chgo
 
av84fun said:
Were the TIPS on the cues you experimented with all the same and shaped to the same radius?

The tips are, of course, a major factor in imparting spin.

Regards,
Jim
Click to expand...

In my case , yes and I do tip all my cues myself.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Sorry, but no, you can't. Spin is determined by where you hit the CB, not what you hit it with.

pj
chgo
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I 'believe' they do add some additional spin but not much.

The theory , which I believe but have not scientifically tested ;) is that the shaft , as it deflects stays in contact with the CB longer and therfore imparts additional spin.

It does seem to be the case IME but not the extent that some poeple believe. Noticable amount tho.
 
CaptiveBred said:
There are real advantages /shrug The science does not lie. You may consider it trivial but, nonetheless, its an advantage that is there to be used...

What about never having to relearn a new shaft again for the rest of your life? Keep the same shaft specs on every cue you ever buy and there will be no learning curve... you will play the same with any cue from the jump...


The spin factor is enough for me to give up the feel of the hit. Not having to aim at the opposite side of the OB, on a long shot, is worth it alone. Compensating a half inch is alot easier than 3 inches... In addition, the shaft spins better so I can hit closer to the center to get good spin. Closer to center always makes my aim more precise. Think of all the variables you minimize by hitting closer to center...


To me, the game becomes a little less complicated useing engineered shafts. At least from my point of view and the way I approach the game...
Click to expand...


Hold your horses! I know a player who has two apparently identical Z2 shafts, which, BTW, play differently.


Flex
 
Flex said:
Hold your horses! I know a player who has two apparently identical Z2 shafts, which, BTW, play differently.


Flex
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Predator huh , . . . who would have guessed. :)
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Sorry, but no, you can't. Spin is determined by where you hit the CB, not what you hit it with.
Click to expand...

That's just not correct. The grip of the tip + shaft affect the spin as well as where you hit it. It's a pretty simple transfer of energy problem, if you don't believe it give up on chalk and see what happens... you can also stop shaping your tip. For that matter with this theory you could remove the tip and ferrule and just play with the wooden end of the shaft.
 
av84fun said:
Were the TIPS on the cues you experimented with all the same and shaped to the same radius?

The tips are, of course, a major factor in imparting spin.

Regards,
Jim
Click to expand...

They were LePro on the 314 and now Moori medium on the WD700 but both with the same shape.

Standard maple shaft and 314 both had LePro with the same shape.
314 is really doing something to the CB if you don't take care.

No surprises with the WD700 concerning spin - I like that shaft
 
I spent alot of time and effort trying to develope a good stroke and to gain control of the cb, it seems that it took only 5 minutes and 180$ to screw on that new OB-1 shaft to ruin everything that I've worked for. I can appreciate the design of the shafts but it is so easy to put spin on the cb that I can hardly hold on to it. Making balls especially long/straight shots seems to be easier to make, but I don't know if the shot making ability is worth giving up for cb control. BEWARE, the ob-1 on a radial joint has almost no feeling and is an EXTREMELY soft hit.
 
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