about two shots

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evergruven

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
from my first toura in a long time yesterday..I will play these out myself, but curious if you all like a certain way to hit these
especially the two-rail kick..I'm usually ok with these, but was unsure about making the hit here, and honestly missed it bad
the eight ball I thinned, but it came down too far and my partner had to bank it in
 

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Not sure if you’re asking about kicking systems or tip placement and speed but I use the parallel shift method for most two railers, with a rolling ball. It usually works best for me. My other method is the plus 2 system, as long as I’m not going more than plus 4. At that point it starts breaking down and I’m not good enough to adjust.

On the second shot, with a thin cut, I definitely use inside and that is a likely how I would have shot it. The draw shot works but requires a good stroke but should leave a makeable shot for your partner.


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evergruven said:
from my first toura in a long time yesterday..I will play these out myself, but curious if you all like a certain way to hit these
especially the two-rail kick..I'm usually ok with these, but was unsure about making the hit here, and honestly missed it bad
the eight ball I thinned, but it came down too far and my partner had to bank it in
Click to expand...
On the first kick, you might be able to go behind the 6 off the side rail, with bottom inside with a hard enough stroke to curve the CB off the cushion in to the 1 ball.

On the 2nd, I’m not crazy about banks so I’m super thinning the 8 on the right side with inside, sending the CB to middle of the end rail, leaving my opponent a long tough cut shot down the rail or a return safety.
 
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For the 2 rail kick at the 1, I can't think of a better solution.

For the shot at the 8, I see 2 options. I'm assuming the ball is close enough to the hole that you can cheat the pocket a lot. Hitting the 8 with inside to bring the cue ball straight back out, or stunning it to send the cue ball off the end rail and left side rail. That can be tricky because the cue ball tends to want to go long, but if you do it right, you can land the cue ball along the same side as the 9, but just in the other side of the pocket.
 
This is probably a function of the diagram but you might also just be able to draw a touch and come straight at the 9.
 
Scratch85 said:
Not sure if you’re asking about kicking systems or tip placement and speed but I use the parallel shift method for most two railers, with a rolling ball. It usually works best for me. My other method is the plus 2 system, as long as I’m not going more than plus 4. At that point it starts breaking down and I’m not good enough to adjust.

On the second shot, with a thin cut, I definitely use inside and that is a likely how I would have shot it. The draw shot works but requires a good stroke but should leave a makeable shot for your partner.


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Click to expand...

yea, kicking systems..I never really thought much about them because I could kick ok enough, but I def needed help on that one. I just couldn't quite see it
the second shot was touchy..when you say inside, do you mean 3pm, or 2pm (with a bit of top)? I thinned it with 2pm, but I must've hit it too thin

ChrisinNC said:
On the first kick, you might be able to go behind the 6 off the side rail, with bottom inside with a hard enough stroke to curve the CB off the cushion in to the 1 ball.
Click to expand...

I looked at that, it was close but not quite there, I don't believe. if it was there, it looked tougher than the two-railer (to me)
that said, that was a tough two-railer for me..as indicated above, I should probably invest in some kicking systems to add to my feel

ChrisinNC said:
On the 2nd, I’m not crazy about banks so I’m super thinning the 8 on the right side with inside, sending the CB to middle of the end rail, leaving my opponent a long tough cut shot down the rail or a return safety.
Click to expand...

I'd just rolled it, so I must've thinned it too much. definitely wasn't trying to leave my pard a bank. got to play with that one, see if I can make it less touchy

tomatoshooter said:
Hitting the 8 with inside to bring the cue ball straight back out, or stunning it to send the cue ball off the end rail and left side rail. That can be tricky because the cue ball tends to want to go long, but if you do it right, you can land the cue ball along the same side as the 9, but just in the other side of the pocket.
Click to expand...

good call. once I saw how I ended up, I thought about what if I played to get on the other side of the nine. the cb kinda sorta wanted to go that way..

thanks all for the replies- look forward to trying it all out!
 
straightline said:
This is probably a function of the diagram but you might also just be able to draw a touch and come straight at the 9.
Click to expand...

yea, I def thought about it..would've had to hit it good. thinning the 8 felt better at the time, but will practice the draw shot thanks(y)
 
First off...I am left handed....so it sets up easier for me I think...

For the 1-ball kick...I am actually going to kick that 1 rail....The 2 rail kick to me is a sell out.....The 1-rail kick I have a chance to make the ball and land on a shot on the 3...or miss and leave my opponent potentially hooked.....I would use a system IIRC I learned it from Dr. Cue many years ago...I don't think it is called this but I refer to it as "the mini mirror system"....It my be referenced as an X system....but if you break down the system it is actually a mirror system inside the boundaries of the table.....A medium speed rolling ball is all that is needed for that kick.

The 8-ball shot......really hard to miss that ball.......I am actually not hitting that ball thin...(a thin hit can get away from you up table and or hitting it slow it could roll off)....I am shooting not straight on but a pretty full ball on the 8 with a nice smooth top inside.....With a little top inside the CB will kind of kill off the end rail so it would be almost impossible to roll back beyond the 9....the harder you hit it the more it would want to stay in that corner...

Both shots are just smooth medium speed shots.
 
evergruven said:
yea, kicking systems..I never really thought much about them because I could kick ok enough, ...
Click to expand...
You might want to start thinking about them. More importantly, you may want to start practicing them.

The kick at the one takes the least judgement on one rail if you can reach it. Otherwise, you need to know the plus-2 system.

The parallel shift is not very accurate along that path.

As for getting from the 8 to the 9, quarter ball with right side is how I would shoot it, but it depends a little on the table. If you can't control the speed on thin hits, you need to practice those. There is no secret -- you just hit it bad and need to practice.
 
evergruven said:
yea, kicking systems..I never really thought much about them because I could kick ok enough, but I def needed help on that one. I just couldn't quite see it
the second shot was touchy..when you say inside, do you mean 3pm, or 2pm (with a bit of top)? I thinned it with 2pm, but I must've hit it too thin
Click to expand...

Most likely 2:00 or 2:30 (am or pm will work) You need the forward motion of the CB to let the spin work off the top rail. Without forward motion the CB just lays on the top rail. It’s a touch shot and changes a lot as to how thin/thick you hit it.

I almost always use a combination of system and feel for 2 rail kicks. I do not like 1 rail kicks at balls out in open space like this one. Seems like I fail far too often with 1 rail kicks.
 
Bob Jewett said:
The parallel shift is not very accurate along that path.
Click to expand...

I don’t disagree with this. Most systems break down along certain paths and that’s usually when I get lost. What is it about this path that makes it “not very accurate”? The diagram looks like the shift and plus 2 places the line just inside the first diamond.


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Bob Jewett said:
The parallel shift is not very accurate along that path
Click to expand...
I've experienced that, too. With the plus two and similar systems, it's difficult for me to know where the ball comes off the second rail to pick a target on the third rail for a ball in the middle of the table.
 
bpeacock said:
Here is a good 2 rail kick system that would work for the one ball:
Click to expand...

thanks!

Scratch85 said:
Most likely 2:00 or 2:30 (am or pm will work) You need the forward motion of the CB to let the spin work off the top rail. Without forward motion the CB just lays on the top rail. It’s a touch shot and changes a lot as to how thin/thick you hit it.

I almost always use a combination of system and feel for 2 rail kicks. I do not like 1 rail kicks at balls out in open space like this one. Seems like I fail far too often with 1 rail kicks.
Click to expand...

I admit that the one rail kick in the diagram looks tastier than what I saw in the match..not sure why
this said, I want to be able to hit the one ball using two rails, if that's what looks good at the time
thanks again
 
evergruven said:
from my first toura in a long time yesterday..I will play these out myself, but curious if you all like a certain way to hit these
especially the two-rail kick..I'm usually ok with these, but was unsure about making the hit here, and honestly missed it bad
the eight ball I thinned, but it came down too far and my partner had to bank it in
Click to expand...
In the 2nd diagram, I failed to see the 8 ball in the corner, so disregard my previous response.

You can thin the 8 with max inside. A few problems with that choice are that the inside will kill the CB so unless you cut it really thin you may end up with a longer shot than you’d like on the 9. Secondly if playing on new cloth the inside won’t take which would eliminate that option. The option I might consider on newer cloth would be rail first on the 8 with running left spin sending the CB (after pocketing the 8) off the end rail, opposite side rail and across the table to fall near the side rail on either side of the 9 ball - definitely a speed control shot.
 
tomatoshooter said:
In my experience, the cue ball runs wide so you need to aim closer to the corner pocket than if it ran true.
Click to expand...

I don’t doubt that this may be true but at what angle/path do you think that adjustment is necessary? Or is it always feel?


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tomatoshooter said:
I've experienced that, too. With the plus two and similar systems, it's difficult for me to know where the ball comes off the second rail to pick a target on the third rail for a ball in the middle of the table.
Click to expand...

Where the CB hits the second rail is the key to accuracy. In all two rail kicks you have to “see” the shot from the second rail. You can manipulate the CB more off the first rail than you can off the second. Consequently, you have to visualize the shot off the second rail, regardless of the system you may be using.


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tomatoshooter said:
I've experienced that, too. With the plus two and similar systems, it's difficult for me to know where the ball comes off the second rail to pick a target on the third rail for a ball in the middle of the table.
Click to expand...

I will also add, the plus 2 is different on all tables and you need to test it before a match (if you use it) to be accurate.


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