Adjusting stance for body type

victorl

victorl

Where'd my stroke go?
Silver Member
Have a short question for the instructors out there.

I've been teaching basic fundamentals to my league teammates for the past while now, and this season, I've been trying to teach the stance to our newest member. The problem (if you can call it a problem) is that she is below-average height, around 5'2", and well-endowed in the busom area, so we're struggling to find a proper stance that will allow her to get her chin down near the cue AND swing her back arm freely.

So the question is, what sort of stance would you recommend to a student of this body type?

Cheers,
Vic
 
victorl said:
Have a short question for the instructors out there.

I've been teaching basic fundamentals to my league teammates for the past while now, and this season, I've been trying to teach the stance to our newest member. The problem (if you can call it a problem) is that she is below-average height, around 5'2", and well-endowed in the busom area, so we're struggling to find a proper stance that will allow her to get her chin down near the cue AND swing her back arm freely.

So the question is, what sort of stance would you recommend to a student of this body type?

Cheers,
Vic
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There are a number of women such as you describe in the pro ranks. Have your teammate watch videos of them and imitate their stance and style.
 
I am not one of the certified instructors to which you directed the question but I'd like to offer my 2 cents.

Many moons ago, when playing league, we played at this one place that had a table that was on a very slanted surface. The effect being that there was a difference in table height relative to the floor of nearly three(3) inches, or more, from one end to the other. Whenever I knew I would be playing there I made sure to wear a pair of my cowboy boots which had a 1 & 3/4 inch heel so as to not cramp up my stroke when shooting on the deep end so to speak.

If she is comfortable in something with a heel, I'd suggest that as her shooting shoes.

I will probably get flak for this, but I would not restrict her to a pendulum stroke. Shooting with the grip hand a bit forward requires less clearance as the hand is UP & forward.

If that approach is adopted, or regardless, I'd also suggest that she get a cue with an extension since she will be at a disadvantage many times especially on bigger tables. Athena makes cues for women with extensions but they start out shorter. The older Cuetecs can accommodate their extensions.

I know there are other issues but perhaps something here can be beneficial. Good Luck in finding an appropriate solution.

Best Wishes,
Rick
 
...Which shows you're not qualified to answer, and yet you feel no less compelled to post your ridiculous suggestions in the Ask an Instructor forum. Hopefully the OP's friend doesn't take your advice. :mad:

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

ENGLISH! said:
I am not one of the certified instructors to which you directed the question but I'd like to offer my 2 cents.
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This is solid advice. When working with buxom women, often I have them stand a bit more open to the table, which allows the chest to get out of the way of the cuestick. The same is true for people with a really large belly. As long as your are balanced, a tripod, and have clearance for your cuestick, your stance will likely work for you. There are many ways to stand correctly.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Donny Lutz said:
There are a number of women such as you describe in the pro ranks. Have your teammate watch videos of them and imitate their stance and style.
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Thank you, Scott. A more open stance makes a lot of sense.

And Donny, that's a good idea, but I don't really follow the women's professional circuit so the only model player I can think of off the top of my head would be Shanelle Lorraine. Could anyone be so kind as to give me a few examples of other buxom female professional players? (Purely for research purposes, of course)
 
Scott Lee said:
This is solid advice. When working with buxom women, often I have them stand a bit more open to the table, which allows the chest to get out of the way of the cuestick. The same is true for people with a really large belly. As long as your are balanced, a tripod, and have clearance for your cuestick, your stance will likely work for you. There are many ways to stand correctly.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
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Absolutely. Moving toward the more snooker style stance is often the only adjustment needed to compensate for exceptional assets.
Steve
 
buxom

victorl said:
Thank you, Scott. A more open stance makes a lot of sense.

And Donny, that's a good idea, but I don't really follow the women's professional circuit so the only model player I can think of off the top of my head would be Shanelle Lorraine. Could anyone be so kind as to give me a few examples of other buxom female professional players? (Purely for research purposes, of course)
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Karen Coor and Kelly Fisher come to mind.

Check out some of the Asian tournaments on Youtube, and you'll see quite a few short players.
 
It seems that many have focused on the 'well endowed' issue & have failed to address the 5'2" height issue ALONG with the other matter. It seems to me that there are TWO issues here & one simply makes the other worse.

In coaching, I've found that sometimes fixing one issue CAN fix another, but more often than not it takes a combination of things to fix multiple problems.

I know that my stroke was cramped by that table that was nearly 3 inches higher on one end & I'm 5'9" 'tall'. I could not lower the table & rather than try to change my shooting 'form', I raised my 'shooting center' by wearing boots with a higher heel than tennis or street shoes. That seemed logical to me & it did alleviate the issue. One needs to get into a usable position to execute a good stroke above the level of the table. Standing tall is not a good thing to do IMHO. IMO, one should be as low as is comfortable.

There is a very long legged lady that often comes into my local hall that has just the opposite issue. Her hips are well above the level of the table & it is rather uncomfortable for her to get down to table level. Sometimes when she comes in wearing high heels she very often if not always takes her shoes off to shoot.

In a perfect world, the table would raise & lower to fit the individual shooter. That is not happening any time soon. So...one has to adapt any misfit to the table by adjusting whatever one can.

Changing shoes to help accommodate a mis-fitting certainly seems logical to me, especially since most women are rather comfortable wearing a heeled shoe. Just as that very tall lady that comes into my local hall would be better served not wearing heels when playing pool.

Earl told a story once where he almost forfeited a match because he was wearing the wrong shoes to shoot pool & had to go back to his hotel room to change shoes. I too have shoes that I do not want to be wearing if playing any 'serious' type of pool.

Earl (& Shane) are both using longer than normal cues as are others. Even though I can use a bridge fairly well, I for one would rather not us a bridge when not absolutely necessary. I would rather put on an extension to accommodate a lack of reach for certain shots. I know that is not why Earl & Shane are using longer cues but it certainly does not hurt with reach issues.

When coaching, a good coach sometimes has to think 'out of the normal coaching box' in order to help the one they are trying to help. In baseball, some can not use well a bat that is a normal length fit for their height. A slighter smaller bat or different balance point for them usually yields better results. Also some young players have outgrown their bat & even though they use it well some are better served to get a bat that fits their new body size.

I hope I have supported my earlier offers in hope of helping so as to not make them seem so 'absurd'.

I wish the pupil success with whatever is employed in hope of helping her.
 
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Adjusting Stance for Body Type

pocket said:
A bit harsh, no? Statement was qualified and offered in good faith.
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Giving the benefit of doubt, I believe the statement was offered in good faith. :smile: However, bad info is not better than no info ... IT'S WORSE. Too many times, good faith information followed by an individual makes matters worse ... Worse for the student and also worse for the instructor trying to solve the students, now multiple, problems. In this case it was a simple solution that could have developed into additional problems for the student if they followed a wrong, although well meaning, answer.

Donny, Scott and Steve all gave simple and correct advise in solving the body type problem ... a problem that is very common, and one instructors run into over and over again. Many students don't realize how hard and complicated pool can be and how frustrating it is for instructors to correct problems when a student listens to their friends. Like a friend telling his buddy that the key to shooting a ball down the rail that is frozen to the rail is to hit the ball and cushion at the same time - NOT.

Please give instructors the credit they are due, especially the "Master Instructors" ... they are called that for a reason.

Thank You ... for having a love of the game! :thumbup:

Keep Shooting ... STRAIGHT !!
 
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Since the wear heels option has been taken in not sure I have anything to offer...i kid I kid!

I would say get that back foot square to the line of the shot and that front foot out in front. Should help open the hips up and provide enough clearance for the grip hand. If the back foot feels uncomfortable then close the angle a bit until its comfortable. The entire reason of the stance is to provide stability. There are nuuuumerous ways to do this so if it is uncomfortable for her try another way.

The problem comes with the breasts. It may not be possible to get her chin on the cue. Another issue is where her vision centre is. If she is a cross dominant player the boobs could really get in the way. If she isn't, then its lucky. She also may not be able to get the cue against the side of her chest like many do. Whilst it has its benefits of keeping the cue on line, its more than possible to not have it touching and develop a nice stroke.

With her height, try keeping the feet closer than normal without making her flimsy and easily knocked off balance. It will increase her hips in height maybe by only an inch or two but she will notice a difference when bent down on the shot. She will be able to reach further in her stance which is a bonus also.

Another thing which may get a little personal....sports bras. I've met lots and lots of amateur and pro snooker players that wear them. They swear by them. They flatten the boobs out so if they come into contact with the cue they tend to help keeping the cue level and straight rather than being a hindrance.

Final note...its usually better to see how a player stands...they're always going to naturally stand comfortably...so unless its really bad then only fine adjustments may be needed. And some cases may just need their alignment sorting out and teach them how to get into their natural stance aligned properly.

Good luck.
 
Well, I've got her working on a more open stance, and it's helped to free up her shooting arm a little. It's hard to find a comfortable position that will let her swing freely and also have her chin on the cue, so we're using a slightly more upright stance, with the chin about 3-4 inches off the cue.

Thanks to everyone for your input.
 
victorl...Remember, the "chin on the cue" is just an option, rather than a necessity. The key is clearance to swing the cue freely. Any stance that is even slightly different will "feel" uncomfortable initially. She just has to stick with it long enough to become used to it. Practicing stroke building drills will help speed this transition up. Glad we could help! :thumbup:

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

victorl said:
Well, I've got her working on a more open stance, and it's helped to free up her shooting arm a little. It's hard to find a comfortable position that will let her swing freely and also have her chin on the cue, so we're using a slightly more upright stance, with the chin about 3-4 inches off the cue.

Thanks to everyone for your input.
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If someone asks for my advice I will always try getting their chin on that cue. But as you say Scott, its not always necessary and can in some cases, like this one with a large chest cause more problems than it cures. First and foremost is allowing that cue to swing in a straight line. The eyes and brain very quickly learn to adjust from a higher view of things, but if someone learns and adopts a poor stroke it can take months to fix.

I think what victor is doing is excellent. If there were more people willing to show newcomers the ropes leagues would boom. Keep up the good work :-)
 
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