advice on 8 and 9 ball

L

lorider

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
i play apa double jeapordy where we play both 8 and 9 ball the same night. i cant seem to play both well at the same time. i know various factors are involved, mainly who my opponent is in each game.

i just looked up my lifetime stats and there seems to be a pattern developing. 1 session i will do better in 8 and the next session i will do better in 9 ball.

here are my lifetime stats so far.

summer 2011
9 ball 77 % wins
8 ball 52%

fall 2011
9 ball 60%
8 ball 67%

spring 2012
9 ball 64%
8 ball 42%

summer 2012
9 ball 43%
8 ball 77%

fall of 2011 the percentages were pretty close but overall i just cant seem to do both well at the same time.

any advice fellas ?
 
I would drink more. :grin:

(somewhat) Seriously, I dunno. I'll be curious to see what folks have to say.

I expect you'll get a handle on it, soon enough.
 
I'm not familar with that format, but if you are playing the same opponent in both games he is probably better in one than the other also. So, he wins his best 8 or 9 & you win your best 8 or 9. Next week's opponet might be better than you in 'the other game'. As for improving, I would suggest playing yourself in what you think is your weaker game. But, as you said you think that that alternates, I would suggest playing more 9 ball or 15 ball against yourself as getting position on only one(1) ball with no change of plan option as is available in 8 ball is harder. Also, play it with no slopps. If you make a ball lucky, spot it & shoot it again. Good luck with it & I hope it helps.

PS Also, don't forget to play defense against your self as well. Don't just shoot hard shots without thinking of the cosequenses practice playing the safes & practice geeting out of them.
 
Aside from the variable of your opponent's skill level, I'll suggest something that I found to be true when I played on an APA double jeopardy team. At the 5/6 skill level, you're getting pretty good. Good enough that, at least in 9 ball, you may be missing balls by a narrow margin, leaving easy points for your opponent. In the points based scoring, that alone might account for something. It could also have worked the opposite way when you were doing better at 9 ball.
 
Dont really see any pattern , season to season doesn't tell much IMO unless it showed constant movement.

I didnt do the math but off the top of my head it looks like "Lifetime" , your stats on both games are nearly the same.
 
RRfireblade said:
Dont really see any pattern , season to season doesn't tell much IMO unless it showed constant movement.

I didnt do the math but off the top of my head it looks like "Lifetime" , your stats on both games are nearly the same.
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you are right. lifetime is exactly equal a 56 %
 
that is usually how it goes for a while. I would be a lot better at one than the other but for the past year or so i am consistent in both. for it helped a lot to read specific 9 ball and 8 ball books by phil capelle. they helped me to get into the right mindset for each game. 8 ball and 9 ball are completely different and if you dont know the correct way to play both than you will be only in that 1 games mindset.

i play double jeopardy on wed nights as well fwiw.
 
rrich1 said:
that is usually how it goes for a while. I would be a lot better at one than the other but for the past year or so i am consistent in both. for it helped a lot to read specific 9 ball and 8 ball books by phil capelle. they helped me to get into the right mindset for each game. 8 ball and 9 ball are completely different and if you dont know the correct way to play both than you will be only in that 1 games mindset.

i play double jeopardy on wed nights as well fwiw.
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i forgot to mention an interesting stat. when i was raised to a 5 in 9 ball i went an entire session without a single win. i lost 12 matches in a row before i was lowered back to a 4.

i have not had a losing streak like that anytime i was raised in 8 ball yet my lifetime winning in both are currently exactly the same .
 
lorider said:
i forgot to mention an interesting stat. when i was raised to a 5 in 9 ball i went an entire session without a single win. i lost 12 matches in a row before i was lowered back to a 4.

i have not had a losing streak like that anytime i was raised in 8 ball yet my lifetime winning in both are currently exactly the same .
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I remember last year i went a whole session in 9 with no wins...like 0 and 10. I was close like 28 or 29 points just could get the last couple. Got dropped to a 3 and beat the guy 19 to 1. Ended back up a 4 the next week and shot better from then on.

In the past 6 months i have gone from a 4 in both to a 6 in both by reading books, watching matches online and of course getting my table last fall hasnt hurt. I accredit watching how other people play the most though. I can ply all i want at home but if i didnt have a new way to look at the table i wouldnt be any better off than i was before.
 
DoubleD said:
The next thing to wonder is whether the OP gets different opponents thrown against him depending on the game and the session.
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Well thats one of the 'league' variable thats difficult to quantify and might explain season to season inconsistany.

Most leagues 'know' people and if one guy is playing well, they typically know it. That can go either way between "He's playing good ,we need to put someone good on him or "He's been sucking" so ____ can take him out". In fact way back when I played APA , I got alot of "We don't have anyone who can beat him" and they put a sacrifical lamb on me and stack that rest of the lineup. Other leagues often have rules governing that but APA didnt not.

That kinda of action has strange effects on handicap sometimes too, when your opponent levels are randomized, your game stats such as total innings and defensives get randomized also. You might run more or less innings than 'normal' or play more or less defense than 'normal' for an individuals typical play.
 
I think you are just reading too much into it. Aside from one session in 8 ball and one in 9 ball every other time you have been above 50% in both. Anything above 50% is playing well based on the handicap system. 56% overall in both is solid for your skill level. Just keep working on your game and you will be fine. Was the dip from moving up a skill level and learning to adjust? You also seem to be at the point where you may be more consistent on some nights than others and more so in 8 ball vs 9 ball. I always played double jeopardy and had no real issues playing both games on the same night.
 
DoubleD said:
Read my previous post, but to clarify, you can't average a list of averages.

For instance:

Season 1 I win 1 game out of 100--my win percentage is 1%

Season 2 I win 5 games out of 5--my win percentage is 100%

If I average the averages, that is 50.5% win percentage.

If I add up wins and loses, I have only won 6/105 games...that is slightly lower than 50.5%

dld
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more detailed info

summer 2011
8 ball 14 wins-13 losses
9 ball 10 wins- 3 losses

fall 2011
8 ball 20 wins-10 losses
9 ball 9 wins- 6 losses

spring 2012
8 ball 13 wins-18 losses
9 ball 16 wins- 9 losses

current session
8 ball 17 wins- 5 losses
9 ball 6 wins- 8 losses

as you can see , so far this session the win - loss record is almost the exact opposite of last session.

i sucked last session in 8 ball and so far this session i am sucking in 9 ball.

i just dont understand it. i have come in 1st in 9 ball top gun the last 3 sessions in my double jeapordy league. i am currently in the middle of the standings so far this session.
 
lorider said:
more detailed info

summer 2011
8 ball 14 wins-13 losses
9 ball 10 wins- 3 losses

fall 2011
8 ball 20 wins-10 losses
9 ball 9 wins- 6 losses

spring 2012
8 ball 13 wins-18 losses
9 ball 16 wins- 9 losses

current session
8 ball 17 wins- 5 losses
9 ball 6 wins- 8 losses

as you can see , so far this session the win - loss record is almost the exact opposite of last session.

i sucked last session in 8 ball and so far this session i am sucking in 9 ball.

i just dont understand it. i have come in 1st in 9 ball top gun the last 3 sessions in my double jeapordy league. i am currently in the middle of the standings so far this session.
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other people could be getting better as well.

im assuming you are clumping all of your wins together as a total wins and losses instead of by night.
 
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rrich1 said:
other people could be getting better as well.

im assuming you are clumping all of your wins together as a total wins and losses instead of by night.
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yes you are correct.

i was lumpimg all 3 divisions i play in together. they consist of sun night double jeapordy, fri night scotch doubles double jeapordy and tue night 8 ball. oh yea, i forgot i also added my sun afternoon 8 ball scotch doubles i just joined this session.

in the scotch doubles only your singles matches are entered in your stats.
on my tue night 8 ball division i usually just play the required 6 matches you have to play to be eligible for playoffs because i play in a money league that night also.

i probably play a lot of pool each week compared to most of you, guess i am trying to make up for a 20 year hiatus from the game:grin-square:
 
It's just a guess, but I bet you have a notebook or a journal and when you get home from league or maybe even in your car you write down the results of the night's matches. I also play a double jeopardy format, sometimes I win, sometimes I lose. Want some advice? Don't be so concerned with the numbers. If you want to keep track of something try this: practice alone, whenever you miss a shot, stop and write it down from beginning to end. Take notice of your routine, did you breathe two, or did you breathe three times, did you stay down, did you stand up, did you follow through, did something distract you, what was it, were your feet comfortable, did your cue ball go where you wanted it to, did you chalk. What made you miss? Then set it up again, read your notes and make corrections. I know from your posts that you're kind of fanatical about your win-loss percentage, but try to limit yourself to checking that to once every couple of months. Correct mistakes, enhance focus and concentration, you'll soon know your win percentage without checking on line
 
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rrich1 said:
other people could be getting better as well.

im assuming you are clumping all of your wins together as a total wins and losses instead of by night.
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here is just my sun night double jeapordy stats which is the longest running division i have played in. i have played in the other divisions only a couple of sessions.

summer 2011
9 ball 10 wins 3 losses 77% 1st in top gun with 41 points
8 ball 7 wins 8 losses 47% 4th in top gun with 33 points

fall 2011
9 ball 9 wins 6 losses 60 % 1st in top gun with 45 points
8 ball 8 wins 7 losses 53% 3rd in top gun with 36 points

spring 2012
9 ball 10 wins 6 losses 63% 2nd in top gun with 44 points
8 ball 4 wins 11 losses 27% 22 in top gun with 17 points

current session
9 ball 4 wins 5 losses 44% 7th in top gun with 22 points
8 ball 6 wins 2 losses 75% 2nd in top gun with 30 points

we still have 6 weeks to go. as you can see from the above stats i have never sucked at 9 ball like i am doing this session. on the other hand this is my best 8 ball session if the current trend continues.
 
Celophanewrap said:
It's just a guess, but I bet you have a notebook or a journal and when you get home from league or maybe even in your car you write down the results of the night's matches. I also play a double jeopardy format, sometimes I win, sometimes I lose. Want some advice? Don't be so concerned with the numbers. If you want to keep track of something try this: practice alone, whenever you miss a shot, stop and write it down from beginning to end. Take notice of your routine, did you breathe two, or did you breathe three times, did you stay down, did you stand up, did you follow through, did something distract you, what was it, were your feet comfortable, did your cue ball go where you wanted it to, did you chalk. What made you miss? Then set it up again, read your notes and make corrections. I know from your posts that you're kind of fanatical about your win-loss percentage, but try to limit yourself to checking that to once every couple of months. Correct mistakes, enhance focus and concentration, you'll soon know your win percentage without checking on line
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i was typing while you were also lol.

no i do not keep notes. i do check my stats at the same time i check where our team stands for the session.

yea i guess it seems like i am fanatical about my win loss record. i dont like losing :grin-square:

i find here lately that when i get home after a bad match i have trouble going to sleep. i keep playing all my shots in my head figuring out what i did wrong. on the nights i shoot good i still have trouble going to sleep because i am still riding high from winning :grin:

cant win either way lol. maybe i need to slack off of of playing so much.

nah i aint doing that. headed to tunica tomorrow :grin-square:
 
lorider said:
i was typing while you were also lol.

no i do not keep notes. i do check my stats at the same time i check where our team stands for the session.

yea i guess it seems like i am fanatical about my win loss record. i dont like losing :grin-square:

i find here lately that when i get home after a bad match i have trouble going to sleep. i keep playing all my shots in my head figuring out what i did wrong. on the nights i shoot good i still have trouble going to sleep because i am still riding high from winning :grin:

cant win either way lol. maybe i need to slack off of of playing so much.

nah i aint doing that. headed to tunica tomorrow :grin-square:
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No hope for you, you might as well have another drink
 
Celophanewrap said:
No hope for you, you might as well have another drink
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lol. funny you should mention having a drink. if any of you see some guy drunk as hell sat at tunica it probly be me. i done told my team i will play fri night but i am relying on them to pull off the tournament sat because i am celebrating my birthday while they win the tourny.

just kidding about pulling the tourny off. i will be happy if we make the quarter finals. i was playing in my napa league tonight and i found out we got a couple of pretty loaded teams in it.

i thought i put together a pretty good team but i only got 2 guys that can hang with any of the players on 2 of the teams i heard of that was put together. no handicap limit sucks :(

i like my chances of winning next weeks apa tourny in tunica better. we have 2 real good 7s, 2 real good 5s, a pretty fair 4, a pretty fair 2 and the best damn 3 i have seen in memphis. if she dont make it she aint leavin it lol.

oh yea, playin the apa scotch doubles next thursday down there also. my partner is the best 7 in our division, if i hold up my end i like our chances. he is also the napa lo here in memphis. i play on his napa team . he liked the way i was shooting tonight when i beat a 68 3-1,i am a 50 in napa league.
 
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