Aiming systems: Why the problems?

Stevie Moore. CJ Wiley. Bustamante. SVB. These are a few top players who say that they use an aiming system.

The point of this thread is that all methods are valid. NO ONE comes up with or advocates any technique that is truly detrimental to playing good pool.

The end result is whether you are making the shots or not.

If you were a Scrabble player and you were having trouble remembering all the three letter words and I offered you an obscure memory improvement technique then it would be with the goal of helping you to become a better Scrabble player. If you tried and it didn't work then what have you lost? Nothing but the time you put into it. But if it worked for you then you gained a lot.


I don't think the list posted would really conclude anything about the aiming system its self , these are all high end players who likely got to where they are with out any system,
If they went to a system like most people do because they are not playing at their top speed at the time , it is highly likely they corrected their inherited flaws they pic up threw their slump, just like any other sport ur mechanics break down and need to be rounded back from time to time,,

I think the mental part of the game is the part that deserves the most but gets the least attention and putting time in there by reading and putting ur self into pressure situations would be if not more at least equal at the end of the day to be the best player u can be



1
 
Hi Joey!

As promised, here's my participation in this thread. I do hope that you didn't target that sentence in blue at me. Yes, I did post this morning in another thread, but it was one of those "flurry of the fingers" things that didn't require much thought, and it was something I could do on a 5-minute break.

Back on topic, I think the following apply when discussing aiming systems:

  1. The topic of aiming systems themselves is controversial. It sounds obvious by virtue of the heat that naturally ensues anytime the phrase "aiming system" is brought up on these boards, but think about this for a second. Why? Why are aiming systems -- a way of systemizing "aim" so it's repeatable and more accurately reproducible -- controversial? (You'd think that everyone would be jumping onboard aiming systems. Heck, just "do" these steps, and the ball goes in the hole! Don'tcha just love this cheat-code?) I thought long and hard about this one, and the conclusion I came to, is this: because it offends our sense of creativity, that's why. The very idea that a maestro of our sport -- say, Efren, or Mosconi -- could be using an "assembly line" aiming "system" that if you follow these steps, it pockets the ball -- offends the respect we have for these maestros. They are no longer the high-level talents we put on a pedestal, but rather "practitioners" of a Wal-Mart stick-figure assembly diagram. The creativity, perception, magic, mystique, and "wow factor" just went out the window -- or, at least got severely diminished.

  2. Unjustified / unsubstantiated sales pitches. You know my thoughts on this one. This is the only thing that will get my active involvement in an aiming system thread. And somehow, I think some aiming system advocates know this. ("Psst! If you want to drag Sean out of the woodwork, just say that if you switch to CTE, you'll go up 'x' number of balls to Bustamante level." :) ) All kidding aside, there's no shortage of exuberance when it comes to aiming systems. For the beginner or the average Joe/Jane, to be able to take this most complex aspect of playing pool, and systemize / package it, is very powerful to them. "Oh my gosh, before, I was just Joe-banger, barely able to run 3 balls, and after I learned CTE, I can now run-out. Thank you SO much CTE!" We've seen it before. And you know, I personally find this heart-warming, when I hear of a player that's discovered newfound excitement for our beloved sport. I love to read about a player that feels on top of the world, because he/she ran-out and won the team championship for his/her team.

    What gets me, though, is the active trolling and used-car-salesmanship that goes on. The literal *promise* that CTE is much better than all other aiming "systems" or techniques that came before it, and it will be the "new standard" by which all pros will elevate to. And I've actually had CTE advocates PM me and tell me that if I'm a 100-ball runner now, "look out" if I learn CTE -- I'll be Bustamante speed! Or, that CTE is much better than the system I use -- which is basically a "catalog" method of aiming based on the Back-of-Ball technique -- shooting from my subconscious, from rote, or from "feel," if you will. In other words, rather than effortlessly sink into the "zone" as I do (which is largely responsible for some of my high runs), I should instead "always stay" with my conscious mind involved, following the steps of CTE, because this way, the conscious/analytical mind is "always in control." (This guy has obviously never experienced being in the zone, and therefore needs a system to follow.) The active trolling and used-car-salesmanship is what gets a lot of the CTE advocates in trouble, because: 1.) folks are already sensitized to it, and 2.) they don't see how "clan-ish" it looks.

  3. We have a bunch of troublemakers on this site. Yep, I dare say it, but we do. Now I'm not talking about Dr. Dave, or Lou, or PJ, although they have, at times, contributed to the stress. No, I'm talking about the ones that have nothing to add to the discussion to help calm it down, so they instead incite flames by pouring gas on it. Those that swoop down like a kamikaze, let loose with a nice pile of diarrhea, pull up and out of the dive, and then resume back on a high perch, ready for another go. The problem is that the folks targeted by these piles of diarrhea react to this, and react very negatively. The conflagration feeds itself.

  4. We have some folks that don't know when to quit. There's a point at which each side of the debate has said their piece (and peace, for that matter), but for some unknown reason, the debate rages on, and on, and on, and on... I think there is a point in these "aiming system" debates where a stalemate, or impasse, is reached. You can go no farther. This is common in debating circles -- it's *going* to happen to even the finest debaters, especially when they're evenly matched. The correct thing to do is to acknowledge what each side has said, maybe summarize them, and move on. If there is no moving on -- nothing else to talk about -- that's where the thread should end, with a summary of both sides. This way, when someone new wants to look for this information, it's easily readable and retrievable. Have you tried looking on AZB for CTE information? The CTE advocates will say (in an "OB-1" ;) Kenobe voice), "use the Search, Luke!" Have you ever tried looking for CTE information? It's a friggin' mess! The state these threads are left in -- if they'd not been removed by Mr. Wilson because someone got out of hand, which is often the case -- the thread is otherwise just a mess and hard to follow. You have to wade through a haystack to retrieve that needle of information you're looking for.
However, things are looking up. The first start to addressing a problem, is the acknowledgment that the problem exists, and taking the first step to work around it. I think this thread is that first step.

Now, I may've offended some people with the things I write above, as many will recognize the particular situations I talk about, even though I don't give specifics. The truth is, I'm not here to offend, but merely to participate and point-out those very things that cause the ruckus we experience with aiming system threads. If "you" (the royal you, not you personally, Joey) recognize one of the situations/scenarios I wrote above, it's not that I'm calling you out. I'm just cataloging those events that I feel are "exhibit A" of why aiming system threads go south.

Thoughts?
-Sean

My thoughts? Your thoughts are so well organized, civil, respectful and spot on, it's impossible to argue with any of them.

For the record, I wasn't the least bit concerned about YOU not posting. I know you to be a man of your word and wasn't even slightly concerned about you not posting.

As usual, you bring up great points and it's good to see all of these things that you accurately opined but what is your conciliatory, representative "olive branch" statement? You see, and you know I love you like a brother but while you brought up excellent points about how "advertising" someone's product gets THEM into trouble, I am disappointed that you didn't make this your conciliatory olive branch statement or something similar. (you have so few faults, I coudn't think of any other :wink:)

This goes for everyone in this thread.

I see others pointing out what's wrong with the other side and that's not what this thread is about.

It's about each of us seeing the other person's point of view as far as how what we write individually and how that grates on the other posters.
Sean, you are the perfect example of civility and if I had known you when I first wrote the Code of Conduct, I would have had you on the team for sure. You are great for the forum and I look forward to meeting you one day.
 
My thoughts? Your thoughts are so well organized, civil, respectful and spot on, it's impossible to argue with any of them.

For the record, I wasn't the least bit concerned about YOU not posting. I know you to be a man of your word and wasn't even slightly concerned about you not posting.

As usual, you bring up great points and it's good to see all of these things that you accurately opined but what is your conciliatory, representative "olive branch" statement? You see, and you know I love you like a brother but while you brought up excellent points about how "advertising" someone's product gets THEM into trouble, I am disappointed that you didn't make this your conciliatory olive branch statement or something similar. (you have so few faults, I coudn't think of any other :wink:)

This goes for everyone in this thread.

I see others pointing out what's wrong with the other side and that's not what this thread is about.

It's about each of us seeing the other person's point of view as far as how what we write individually and how that grates on the other posters.
Sean, you are the perfect example of civility and if I had known you when I first wrote the Code of Conduct, I would have had you on the team for sure. You are great for the forum and I look forward to meeting you one day.

Olive branch? Hmm... ok, I get what you're saying, and I apologize for "not getting it" the first time.

Ok, let's try this:

[...]
2. Exuberance in the salesmanship realm. Let's put a positive spin on this. All too often, secret societies and caste systems block the paths to greatness in any sport. Name one -- boxing, hockey, basketball, American football, football as the rest of the world knows it ("soccer" here), etc. -- all have secret societies and "caste" systems. We're fortunate in pool, because unlike a more rigid cue sport (snooker), instruction is easy to come by, cheap(!), and readily available. Enter the exuberance. If someone's looking for something to improve his/her game, it's usually the most exuberant presenter that gets the cheese. CTE advocates, reveling in their potting success, are some of the most exuberant out there. This is good for the sport because knowledge is at least freely passed on from person-to-person -- usually at little or no cost -- without any caste system interfering. Try that in the "you must seek out instruction and membership-with-hazing-ritual" snooker world!
[...]

What say you?
-Sean
 
Olive branch? Hmm... ok, I get what you're saying, and I apologize for "not getting it" the first time.

Ok, let's try this:

[...]
2. Exuberance in the salesmanship realm. Let's put a positive spin on this. All too often, secret societies and caste systems block the paths to greatness in any sport. Name one -- boxing, hockey, basketball, American football, football as the rest of the world knows it ("soccer" here), etc. -- all have secret societies and "caste" systems. We're fortunate in pool, because unlike a more rigid cue sport (snooker), instruction is easy to come by, cheap(!), and readily available. Enter the exuberance. If someone's looking for something to improve his/her game, it's usually the most exuberant presenter that gets the cheese. CTE advocates, reveling in their potting success, are some of the most exuberant out there. This is good for the sport because knowledge is at least freely passed on from person-to-person -- usually at little or no cost -- without any caste system interfering. Try that in the "you must seek out instruction and membership-with-hazing-ritual" snooker world!
[...]

What say you?
-Sean

Thanks Sean! This is great.

I'm shocked and disappointed that some of the participants in the heated discussions haven't stepped up to the plate.

Their absence is well-noted but in their defense, perhaps they just haven't read this thread.
 
Personally, any initial interest I would have in someone's aiming system is whether or not the system is valid. Shouldn't that be obvious? If someone gave you a....roulette system, and the system was: keep betting red until you win...well; it would be pretty easy to mathematically prove it wouldn't work--and that it would be a waste of your money to try it.

BUT THEN, there would always be someone who WON BIG one night with the system, and would forever be its advocate, and would say "IT WORKS!" "Why do you follow your calculations, when I've already showed you that it WORKS!"

I hope you can catch the drift. The same goes on here with regard to CTE.

Now, I will admit (in fact I would be proud to say) that in the recent past I would consider myself the initiator of much of the vitriol regarding aiming systems on this forum. But I certainly don't consider myself "guilty" of any bad behavior. Here's why:

1) My interest is in discussing the SUBSTANCE of CTE, and why that substance (what there is of it) shows that CTE is an invalid aiming system.

2) OTHERS have been CONSISTENTLY either (or both) unwilling or UNABLE to discuss the substance of CTE--and that has been true, apparently, for FIFTEEN YEARS.

3) And those same others, finding themselves absent of anything substantive and specific to say regarding CTE, resort to claims of "it works!", or to name-calling, or to negative characterization of those who would like to discuss the substance of CTE.

IMO, all problems related to aiming system acrimony that have occurred here arise from the unreasonable stance of those who refuse to discuss CTE's substance, and focus on its peripherals or incidentals (at best) instead.

Reconciliation is not the solution. The solution is reasonableness. Unfortunately, anyone who has been on the planet for more then eight years or so will have come to understand that some people can't be reasonable AT ALL....and many can't be reasonable on certain topics, unique to themselves.
 
Personally, any initial interest I would have in someone's aiming system is whether or not the system is valid. Shouldn't that be obvious? If someone gave you a....roulette system, and the system was: keep betting red until you win...well; it would be pretty easy to mathematically prove it wouldn't work--and that it would be a waste of your money to try it.

BUT THEN, there would always be someone who WON BIG one night with the system, and would forever be its advocate, and would say "IT WORKS!" "Why do you follow your calculations, when I've already showed you that it WORKS!"

I hope you can catch the drift. The same goes on here with regard to CTE.

Now, I will admit (in fact I would be proud to say) that in the recent past I would consider myself the initiator of much of the vitriol regarding aiming systems on this forum. But I certainly don't consider myself "guilty" of any bad behavior. Here's why:

1) My interest is in discussing the SUBSTANCE of CTE, and why that substance (what there is of it) shows that CTE is an invalid aiming system.

2) OTHERS have been CONSISTENTLY either (or both) unwilling or UNABLE to discuss the substance of CTE--and that has been true, apparently, for FIFTEEN YEARS.

3) And those same others, finding themselves absent of anything substantive and specific to say regarding CTE, resort to claims of "it works!", or to name-calling, or to negative characterization of those who would like to discuss the substance of CTE.

IMO, all problems related to aiming system acrimony that have occurred here arise from the unreasonable stance of those who refuse to discuss CTE's substance, and focus on its peripherals or incidentals (at best) instead.

Reconciliation is not the solution. The solution is reasonableness. Unfortunately, anyone who has been on the planet for more then eight years or so will have come to understand that some people can't be reasonable AT ALL....and many can't be reasonable on certain topics, unique to themselves.

I guess people like you will never catch MY DRIFT.

As usual, you don't care what this thread is all about and simply relish the opportunity to foster ill will at every opportunity.

No problem. It takes all kinds to make the world go 'round.

BTW, congrats on receiving the first red rep from JoeyA not that it would mean anything to you but a promise is a promise. lol
 
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