Aiming Systems

[Joseph Cues]

It is funny. I really do not like aiming systems, I use them as a crutch I guess and it is not fun. It is funner to shoot, but there I was, when the topic came up, trying to figure out what it is that I do. I know I look at the line from the pocket that bisects the ob.

I put this shot on the wei I was having trouble with. I used to make that shot because my cpu had figured it out and was mad it had become hard again, like I had gotten rusty on it.

So, before I remember what my cpu knew, my husband and I were doing this 'paralysis by analysis' thing yesterday afternoon. It is the long shot which if you back up to my previous post is on the wei.

me ' I am missing it because it has a lot of contact induced throw and should hit harder to take out the throw'
him' either use outside eng or compensate, but hit lag speed'
me'no i should hit med hard to take out the throw because too much outside eng will err by an overcut'

then he said 'our sl5s miss this 25% of the time,it is not that easy'

well that did it,boy was I pissed that I was missing it 50% of the time.

i went back to the table, and then that 'ahhah' moment when i remembered what my cpu already knew. i now know i can make this shot 75%.it was indeed 'a damn feel thing',as the Fast man says.

Laura

Imo, people miss more often due to worrying about throws and skids.

 

[des1mone]

What do you mean when you say Earl is cross eye dominant?
He is right handed and he shoots with his right eye over the cue.

 

[des1mone]

Actually he does shoot with a dominant eye. You can see it in all pictues, including this one.

I think one reason many people shoot cross eye dominant is because it comes more natural in a stance. I think a lot of people do it without realizing. If you are right handed, it is easier to position your left eye over the cue than your right, even though the positioning your right eye over the cue is correct ( assuming you are right eye dominant).

 

[Rickw]

"Because I was shown a system that allowed my internal computer to start with good data - as in a simple set of instructions - to achieve good output - pocketing balls without worrying about a contact point on the object ball. I shot two million balls in the first 18 years but never made as many as in the last two."

John,

I'm not sure if I completely understand what you're saying above but I think you're saying that you have to have a pre-shot routine or something to ensure that you're lined up correctly? Or, are you saying you shoot on an infinite line? You said you don't worry about the contact point on the ob, that would seem to me you're talking about a line then.

I tend to agree with Walt and FL. Start with the right fundamentals, shoot millions of balls and let your natural ability take it from there.

 

[Bluewolf]

Look closely and you can see what I said is correct,
"Earls right eye is not over the cue, his eye is inside the cue, very weird, but it works. Both of his eyes obviously do intersect on the cue ball, that is all that counts, so it works for him.

I was watching two things in the poolhall last night. One was choking in players (painfully watching) and the second was how they position their eye over the cue with respect to handedness.

With respect to handedness, I noticed two patterns: 1) cue under the chin so that both eyes are focusing together in looking down the cue 2) opposite eye sighting down the cue

every now and then there is a player who sights exclusively with the dominant eye, but from what I saw, this was the exception. Our eyes work together. We have something called occular fusion. Cant remember the technical parts but Blackjack explained this well. To focus only with one eye would be like having monocular vision, blinded in one eye, which affects peripheral vision and depth perception.

Indeed, I have experienced great confusion on this issue for months but agree with Rick and others, pot the balls, let the body do what is natural.

Laura

 

[Walt in VA]

....Indeed, I have experienced great confusion on this issue for months but agree with Rick and others, pot the balls, let the body do what is natural.
Laura

Laura - I'm glad to see you post this. IIRC, some time ago you posted you were going to switch hands because of your cross-dominance. You mentioned it again more recently, "after the playoffs."

Can you play catch? Do you worry about "aiming" a baseball throw, or wonder which hand to use? Do you think about how to position your body and glove to catch the ball? No, you've learned the basics long ago and you "just do it."

In your martial arts studies, I'm sure you learned all the blocks, strikes and kicks first, but when you progressed to sparring, did you THINK about what type strike your opponent was throwing and the appropriate block to use? No, you just did it automatically, based on the preprogrammed response mechanism you had developed.

You have worked with some fine instructors to develop stance, stroke and speed control - now is the time to follow your own signature line and "Trust your stroke" and just keep shooting until the balls start to go in. If you shoot the same shot enough times, you'll learn the effect of various speeds and english on the shot by watching the balls react, and after a while it becomes instinctive to make the appropriate allowances without thinking. It takes a LOT of table time, but it beats the "paralysis by analysis" syndrome, IMO.

Walt in VA

 

[instroke]

"Because I was shown a system that allowed my internal computer to start with good data - as in a simple set of instructions - to achieve good output - pocketing balls without worrying about a contact point on the object ball. I shot two million balls in the first 18 years but never made as many as in the last two."

John,

I'm not sure if I completely understand what you're saying above but I think you're saying that you have to have a pre-shot routine or something to ensure that you're lined up correctly? Or, are you saying you shoot on an infinite line? You said you don't worry about the contact point on the ob, that would seem to me you're talking about a line then.

I tend to agree with Walt and FL. Start with the right fundamentals, shoot millions of balls and let your natural ability take it from there.

The question is then what are "good" fundamentals. As I only have myself as an example, I'll use my personal experience. Wanting to elevate my game I agreed to take lessons from a top notch road player - who used to run the roads with the likes of Buddy Hall. Now I am not exactly a slouch, I had run five racks of nine ball and run 97 in straight pool and had many eight and outs in 1 pocket and so on before hooking up with this guy. But as we got ready to start practicing one pocket he looked at me and asked me what I was aiming at.

Basically he figured out that I didn't know how to line up correctly or aim properly. I had been literally guessing at the right spot on the ball all my life. Only constant play had made my guesses more consistent than not. So he got to work showing me a simple way to line up correctly and I started to pocket balls consistently, accurately and most importantly - AT ANY SPEED I WISHED ) It was like a whole new world. As a matter of fact he advised me NOT to go around rocketing balls into the pockets because it scares action away.

So I would venture to say that even though I had the advantage in my first eighteen years of playing of watching great players nd access to many books and tapes I still did not get out of any of them the good fundamental of HOW TO AIM properly.

It is my opinion that aiming is a basic fundamental that is often misunderstood or even mistaught. Over the last three years I have come to understand that the "ghostball" method is not nearly the best way to teach or learn how to aim.

And I am talking about a line. Basically the game is a set of lines interrupted by points called balls. Shoot along the lines and the balls take care of themselves. One of the by-products of learning to aim correctly using lines instead of contact points is that the path of the cueball after contact becomes easy to see and consequently position play gets better. I never ever worry about whether a ball will scratch any more because I can see the lines. My only problems now are speed control and jumping up occassionally. Still gotta work on those fundamentals.

Stay in stroke!

John

 

[des1mone]

Fast Larry,

You are right about the 30 degree angle. I found myself doing that a couple years ago. I noticed it when I looked in the mirror. It doesn't allow both eyes to focus on the ball but it does minimize the gap between the eyes helping to focus. Do you think it would be advantageous to have the dominant eye over the cue, plus the 30 degree agnle of the head? Why do you think so many players have the cue positioned over their oposite eye?

 

[Gabber]

J.B

"It is my opinion that aiming is a basic fundamental that is often misunderstood or even mistaught. Over the last three years I have come to understand that the "ghostball" method is not nearly the best way to teach or learn how to aim."


And I am talking about a line. Basically the game is a set of lines interrupted by points called balls. Shoot along the lines and the balls take care of themselves."


This is the G.Ball method.



"One of the by-products of learning to aim correctly using lines instead of contact points is that the path of the cueball after contact becomes easy to see and consequently position play gets better. I never ever worry about whether a ball will scratch any more because I can see the lines. "



This is called the natural angle.



Gabber

 

[Reno]

When I'm having trouble "seeing" a shot, my method of fixing it is to just pay attention. Sounds simple you say. But no really, if I'm having trouble making a shot and I realize that everytime I miss, I'm over cutting it for example. Then my solution is to just cut it a little less, no matter what my aiming brain tells me. Results...back of the pocket.

Another example is if my cueball is on the rail and I need to jack up on a long shot, semi-straight in shot, when I shoot normally, I tend to miss to the left. Therefore, I aim to the right...results, back of the pocket.

Now the teaching pros may try to have me change my stroke or my method of aiming. But for me, what I'm doing works for me, and that's all that matters isn't it?

My opinion is, if you can figure out the fix by paying attention, is there anything else to figure out?

Fast Larry what do you think? Is this what you mean by feel? Or is my game just a mess? In my opinion, it's sort of like Jim Furyk's golf swing...it's not textbook perfect, but it works for him. Good enough for the U.S. Open title anyway.

 

[Bluewolf]

Go back in history and look at all of the photos of all of the great players what you will see is the nose is not parallel with the shaft, in fact it pointing across the shaft in a 30 degree angle. You see a lot of photos even on this board when you come on with them doing this same thing with the younger modern players, that allows both eyes to focus on the cue ball.

Then you see a guy with his dominate eye right over the shaft, others with the shaft lined up on their nose, then you are seeing all kinds of variations of this. This is something I always wade into and solve in any students first lesson. If he gets his eyes aimed wrong, he will never play worth a hoot.

YO LARRY,

We got out this giant 10ft protractor last night to measure my aim and sure enough it was 29.97 degrees. Figured that was good enough.

My left eye does like to peek down the shaft but the nose is good anyway.

Laura

 

[Rickw]

One thing I've discovered over the years is that if I focus on that object ball really good just before I pull the trigger, my accuracy goes way up! I work in a mentally challenging job and I have a wife and two kids and all this adds up to mental fatigue. When I'm fatigued I can't seem to focus on that damn ob! Anyone else experience this?

 

[Rickw]

Well, I'll tell you Larry, sometimes I'm so pooped I can barely run three balls myself. Twelve hours of my day are devoted to work, then some to family and what little I have left to pool. When I'm rested, i.e., am on vacation, I've been known to be a pretty tough competitor. I'm not too far off from retirement and like you, I intend to focus my attention on this game. When I do, look out suckas!!

 

[Sputnik]

Ahahahaha! Pool brings good quality to life!

 

[Rickw]

You know rick that is the number one problem people today have, the number one complaint I hear from them, they are all stressed out, they dont have time to do nothing. I never heard that back in the 50's when Ike was in office and trickey dick was veep, then, we had time to burn.

Perhaps the answer is to make ones life more simple and begin to cut out many of the things that are sucking out your inner forces. Last week, I did not read a newspaper, listen to a radio, watch TV for 4 days, just cut my self off, try it, it can be an amazing experience. Stay off the cpu for 4 days also, suddenly you will realize there are kids running around and you have a wife. You might remember the dogs name. Go back to the 50's for 4 days, cut your self off, rest your brain, let it go on vacation, yes you can do it, you need to do it.

Well, I'm going to Hawaii for a few days. Maybe that will help releive some stress. Of course, between now and then I've got to deal with the stress of that impending flight! Damn I hate to fly!!
Oh, and of course there's the stress of doing all the things my wife will want me to do when we're there!

Oh Hell, don't get me started! I need a Valium right now!!

 

[pro-player]

That is why I love going to Molokai, there isn't any body there, I can get off all by my self and not run into any one, you cant do that in Maui.

When I go on vaction there -must- be beautiful women around or the trip is not worth the money.

 

[dr. Jun Villon]

i couldnt agree more with the house pro and 14.1. aiming is a matter of feel. no more no less. but to develop that "feel" takes hard work, practice, natural talent for the game. to 14.1, we have the same reasoning about aiming. basketball players do not use any scientific formulas to come up with the right strength and arc when shooting the ball. ask a player to shoot from the foul line then step back and shoot again. im sure a good player will sink that ball! no computations, no complications! to the house pro, i think you are right in saying that a begginer has to start with some of the well known techniques first, in order to develop that feel. i have few local pro friends here in the Philippines, they all agree that they shoot by feel. i havent gotten a chance to ask EFREN though, DARN! but im going to bet he plays by feel. He doesnt spend a lot of time to look at any shot no matter how difficult so does Strickland.

 

[instroke]

Re: J.B

"It is my opinion that aiming is a basic fundamental that is often misunderstood or even mistaught. Over the last three years I have come to understand that the "ghostball" method is not nearly the best way to teach or learn how to aim."


And I am talking about a line. Basically the game is a set of lines interrupted by points called balls. Shoot along the lines and the balls take care of themselves."


This is the G.Ball method.

John - I disagree. Admittedly I have not read every book ever written on pool but I don't recall any that describe the Ghost Ball method saying to shoot the cue ball at a point beyond the object ball. I seem to recall the Ghostball method being one in whoch you shoot the cueball into the space you guess is the proper contact point for the two balls.



"One of the by-products of learning to aim correctly using lines instead of contact points is that the path of the cueball after contact becomes easy to see and consequently position play gets better. I never ever worry about whether a ball will scratch any more because I can see the lines. "



This is called the natural angle.

John - Again you seem to be missing my point. Because of extending the lines the natural angle becomes readily apparent. I am not advocating some new physics, instead I am relating something that makes it easier for me to see the aiming lines and the subsequent path of the cue ball.

Sorry you didn't seem to get what I was writing. If you want to hook up some time I'll be more than happy to show you my aiming for say 100 jellybeans a game )

John