Ambidextrous eyes

X

xrbbaker

Registered
I'm 49. Been playing in APA for about 5 years. Past couple years have been a 5. Now a 4 as I've been trying to fix things. I think I've finally found the problem. I'm looking for ideas on how to correct it.

I've always felt there was something wrong with my stroke. If the stroke felt right and natural, my eyes couldn't understand how the ball went in the hole. My natural stroke from my eye's vantage point looks like the tip of the cue stick starts out left and ends up right. In no way does it look like a straight up and down stroke. If I force it to be straight up and down and actually look like it's going to put the cue ball where I expect it to go (rifle sighted), it feels very artificial and mechanical. I've been working on trying to fix this for a few months now. I'm pretty confident that the problem is eye dominance related.

Background. When playing ball I bat left handed. I write and throw right handed. I play golf left or right handed. I spike a volleyball left or right handed. When I shoot a bow or a gun I keep both eyes open. When I do the test to see what eye is dominant (touching 2 finger tips together to block out a corner of the room) it shows that my right eye is dominant.

What I figured out is this. When I walk into the shot and line up my stick I'm doing it with my left eye. I can tell because if I freeze and close my right eye the stick is still lined up. However once I get down behind the ball my right eye tries to take over and makes me want to change the alignment. Sometimes it does it when I'm warm up stroking. Sometimes it takes over at the last instant when I'm striking the ball to "correct" the stroke. Either time ends up in a miss. The result is that if I line up on the ball, get down into my position, relax and TOTALLY IGNORE THE FACT THAT IT LOOKS LIKE I'M GOING TO MISS THE BALL, AND WATCH AS THE TIP OF THE CUE STARTS DOWN MY FIELD OF VISION ON THE LEFT THEN LOOKS LIKE IT CROSSES OVER TO THE RIGHT, then I end up putting the ball in the hole. How screwed up is this? Some might say, well just relax and let it happen. However I can't turn my brain off - the logical part that shouts at me, "You are going to miss!!"

I think the reality is that both of my eyes are very strong and they play tug of war with each other. Perhaps the left is strong from a more vertical position while the right is stronger from a down position. Don't know. Have you ever heard/seen anything like this? Any suggestions? The only thing I can think of is relearn how to relax and trust the shot even if I can't "aim" it. That's kind of exciting. When I relax and don't think or adjust it's like shooting fish in a barrel, but then my brain wakes up and I "adjust" and miss.

Sorry about the long note. Thanks.
 
Wow, I feel like you are reading my mind. I see the stroke the exact same way. Left eye lines up, then right eye takes over as I get lower and I am right eye dominant if I do the test. I also see the cue go crooked when it is actually straight.

1st of all, I am not an accredited instructor but perhaps I can offer some insight since I have the same issues. I find that if I am consistently not confident in my perception of alignment when down on the shot, I shift my mental focus to my stroking hand and visualize(imagine) it in line with the shot line.

It is also very important that if you check your aim when down in your stance, you do it in the set position(when the cue is closest to the cue ball) and not while your stroking. Then you look at the object ball on the final stroke and trust your cue is going straight.

I have a question for you. Do you wear glasses? I never have but I know that my left eye is not 20/20 and I also took an online astigmatism test that seemed to indicate that I have an astigmatism in my left eye. I am very curious if you took the test if you would have the same results.
Anyhoo, looking forward to reading the Pro instructors input and sorry if I rambled to much,

Matt
 
Thanks Matt. I know there is a slight difference in eye strength. I don't know more than that. I'm glad to find out that at least I'm not the only one! thank you.
 
gene albrecht used to give a free telephone lesson on his system of perfect aim which is about eye position for different shots
i dont have mastery of its concepts and dont recommend it or not recommend it but it might be something useful for you to consider
p.s. of course he wants you to buy his dvd
his number is in this thread
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=285819
 
xrbbaker said:
I'm 49. Been playing in APA for about 5 years. Past couple years have been a 5. Now a 4 as I've been trying to fix things. I think I've finally found the problem. I'm looking for ideas on how to correct it.

I've always felt there was something wrong with my stroke. If the stroke felt right and natural, my eyes couldn't understand how the ball went in the hole. My natural stroke from my eye's vantage point looks like the tip of the cue stick starts out left and ends up right. In no way does it look like a straight up and down stroke. If I force it to be straight up and down and actually look like it's going to put the cue ball where I expect it to go (rifle sighted), it feels very artificial and mechanical. I've been working on trying to fix this for a few months now. I'm pretty confident that the problem is eye dominance related.

Background. When playing ball I bat left handed. I write and throw right handed. I play golf left or right handed. I spike a volleyball left or right handed. When I shoot a bow or a gun I keep both eyes open. When I do the test to see what eye is dominant (touching 2 finger tips together to block out a corner of the room) it shows that my right eye is dominant.

What I figured out is this. When I walk into the shot and line up my stick I'm doing it with my left eye. I can tell because if I freeze and close my right eye the stick is still lined up. However once I get down behind the ball my right eye tries to take over and makes me want to change the alignment. Sometimes it does it when I'm warm up stroking. Sometimes it takes over at the last instant when I'm striking the ball to "correct" the stroke. Either time ends up in a miss. The result is that if I line up on the ball, get down into my position, relax and TOTALLY IGNORE THE FACT THAT IT LOOKS LIKE I'M GOING TO MISS THE BALL, AND WATCH AS THE TIP OF THE CUE STARTS DOWN MY FIELD OF VISION ON THE LEFT THEN LOOKS LIKE IT CROSSES OVER TO THE RIGHT, then I end up putting the ball in the hole. How screwed up is this? Some might say, well just relax and let it happen. However I can't turn my brain off - the logical part that shouts at me, "You are going to miss!!"

I think the reality is that both of my eyes are very strong and they play tug of war with each other. Perhaps the left is strong from a more vertical position while the right is stronger from a down position. Don't know. Have you ever heard/seen anything like this? Any suggestions? The only thing I can think of is relearn how to relax and trust the shot even if I can't "aim" it. That's kind of exciting. When I relax and don't think or adjust it's like shooting fish in a barrel, but then my brain wakes up and I "adjust" and miss.

Sorry about the long note. Thanks.
Click to expand...

The nerves from our eyes extend two-ways back to our brain: Some go straight back and some criss-cross. Our dominant eye is determined by the fact that more nerves go straight back to the brain than our recessive eye. This means that the dominant eye sends the sight information to the brain nanoseconds faster than the recessive eye.

Even though it's called a dominant eye, it's not necessarily a stronger eye. It's just getting the info it receives to the brain faster.

This happens regardless of which hand you use to play sports.

I would imagine that you can train your recessive eye somewhat, but the physicality of the nerves behind your eye is still the same. I'm not a doctor but I don't imagine that you can change the nerve configuration to your brain by exercising your eye.

I find that the dominant eye issue really shows itself when we look down the shaft of our cue as we're down on a shot.

Maybe you can try setting up with your dominant eye more over the shaft than before. Try it in small increments. The key is to coordinate it with your arm so that both are in the same alignment.

I think that any given shot can be made with your recessive eye over the cue, however, I think you have to work very hard to accomplish it, and it will tire out a player as they continue to fight their body.
 
BBB - that video is very germane. I know that my head sets up to the right of the cue and as it happens that means my left eye tends to line up physically directly over the stick. Mostly this happens because my old neck isn't as flexible as it used to be! One thing I got from that video that I wondered about that is critical. That is, I SHOULD be seeing a "rifled in" shot visually. If I can't physically see how a ball would possibly go in then I need to change my viewpoint. As you say Fran, I'm going to straighten up my neck/head and see where that takes me. I've messed around with that before but never been sure of is my eye dominance forcing my head into position or is my left eye just doing the work because of my poor head position it just happens to have the best view to line things up.

I think we are getting closer to solving this issue! thanks very much for sharing your thoughts. -Russ
 
xrbbaker said:
BBB - that video is very germane. I know that my head sets up to the right of the cue and as it happens that means my left eye tends to line up physically directly over the stick. Mostly this happens because my old neck isn't as flexible as it used to be! One thing I got from that video that I wondered about that is critical. That is, I SHOULD be seeing a "rifled in" shot visually. If I can't physically see how a ball would possibly go in then I need to change my viewpoint. As you say Fran, I'm going to straighten up my neck/head and see where that takes me. I've messed around with that before but never been sure of is my eye dominance forcing my head into position or is my left eye just doing the work because of my poor head position it just happens to have the best view to line things up.

I think we are getting closer to solving this issue! thanks very much for sharing your thoughts. -Russ
Click to expand...

I can see that you're a smart guy, Russ, and a good analyst. I'm confident that you'll figure it out. Your analysis process is headed in the right direction.
 
And besides, the title of this thread -- "Ambidextrous eyes" -- isn't that a Jackie DeShannon / Kim Carnes song?

-Sean <-- oh wait, that's "Bette Davis Eyes"... <smacks forehead> :p
 
I'm having eye issues as well. I align my dominant right eye to the right of the shaft. Sometimes my left eye takes over from there.
When I move my head a little to the left, nothing looks correct.
It's frustrating. :mad: This is why I can't aim.
I don't know how to fix it ?
 
Shaky1 said:
I'm having eye issues as well. I align my dominant right eye to the right of the shaft. Sometimes my left eye takes over from there.
When I move my head a little to the left, nothing looks correct.
It's frustrating. :mad: This is why I can't aim.
I don't know how to fix it ?
Click to expand...

Try Geno with Perfect Aim. He should be able to help.

He has helped hundreds with eye issues.

John
 
Info

xrbbaker said:
I'm 49. Been playing in APA for about 5 years. Past couple years have been a 5. Now a 4 as I've been trying to fix things. I think I've finally found the problem. I'm looking for ideas on how to correct it.

I've always felt there was something wrong with my stroke. If the stroke felt right and natural, my eyes couldn't understand how the ball went in the hole. My natural stroke from my eye's vantage point looks like the tip of the cue stick starts out left and ends up right. In no way does it look like a straight up and down stroke. If I force it to be straight up and down and actually look like it's going to put the cue ball where I expect it to go (rifle sighted), it feels very artificial and mechanical. I've been working on trying to fix this for a few months now. I'm pretty confident that the problem is eye dominance related.

Background. When playing ball I bat left handed. I write and throw right handed. I play golf left or right handed. I spike a volleyball left or right handed. When I shoot a bow or a gun I keep both eyes open. When I do the test to see what eye is dominant (touching 2 finger tips together to block out a corner of the room) it shows that my right eye is dominant.

What I figured out is this. When I walk into the shot and line up my stick I'm doing it with my left eye. I can tell because if I freeze and close my right eye the stick is still lined up. However once I get down behind the ball my right eye tries to take over and makes me want to change the alignment. Sometimes it does it when I'm warm up stroking. Sometimes it takes over at the last instant when I'm striking the ball to "correct" the stroke. Either time ends up in a miss. The result is that if I line up on the ball, get down into my position, relax and TOTALLY IGNORE THE FACT THAT IT LOOKS LIKE I'M GOING TO MISS THE BALL, AND WATCH AS THE TIP OF THE CUE STARTS DOWN MY FIELD OF VISION ON THE LEFT THEN LOOKS LIKE IT CROSSES OVER TO THE RIGHT, then I end up putting the ball in the hole. How screwed up is this? Some might say, well just relax and let it happen. However I can't turn my brain off - the logical part that shouts at me, "You are going to miss!!"

I think the reality is that both of my eyes are very strong and they play tug of war with each other. Perhaps the left is strong from a more vertical position while the right is stronger from a down position. Don't know. Have you ever heard/seen anything like this? Any suggestions? The only thing I can think of is relearn how to relax and trust the shot even if I can't "aim" it. That's kind of exciting. When I relax and don't think or adjust it's like shooting fish in a barrel, but then my brain wakes up and I "adjust" and miss.

Sorry about the long note. Thanks.
Click to expand...

Are you making a bridge with the right hand?
 
mattp said:
Wow, I feel like you are reading my mind. I see the stroke the exact same way. Left eye lines up, then right eye takes over as I get lower and I am right eye dominant if I do the test. I also see the cue go crooked when it is actually straight.

1st of all, I am not an accredited instructor but perhaps I can offer some insight since I have the same issues. I find that if I am consistently not confident in my perception of alignment when down on the shot, I shift my mental focus to my stroking hand and visualize(imagine) it in line with the shot line.

It is also very important that if you check your aim when down in your stance, you do it in the set position(when the cue is closest to the cue ball) and not while your stroking. Then you look at the object ball on the final stroke and trust your cue is going straight.

I have a question for you. Do you wear glasses? I never have but I know that my left eye is not 20/20 and I also took an online astigmatism test that seemed to indicate that I have an astigmatism in my left eye. I am very curious if you took the test if you would have the same results.
Anyhoo, looking forward to reading the Pro instructors input and sorry if I rambled to much,

Matt
Click to expand...

I have astigmatism in both of my eyes. I shoot right handed and the astigmatism is worse in my left eye. I wear glasses to fix my sight. I also experience the same things that the OP is pointing out in his game. My only way that I have found to fix the problem is to raise up on my cue a little.

I have noticed the alignment looking wrong ever since I became addicted to this forum and started reading everything I could find on aiming. It gets really bad when I get my chin about 5-6 inches from my cue. I always thought it was "normal" and everyone was like that.....I guess not though.
 
Allen Brown...Nothing wrong with standing higher. People site the shot differently. Some are down low over the cue stick, and some stand more upright. Some do a sort of mid point head bob, to double check aim. Everybody is different. My personal site line is about 10" over the cue (unless I have to stretch out over the table). There is no one single "normal" or "correct" height to line up over the stick. Do what works best for you!

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Allen Brown said:
I have astigmatism in both of my eyes. I shoot right handed and the astigmatism is worse in my left eye. I wear glasses to fix my sight. I also experience the same things that the OP is pointing out in his game. My only way that I have found to fix the problem is to raise up on my cue a little.

I have noticed the alignment looking wrong ever since I became addicted to this forum and started reading everything I could find on aiming. It gets really bad when I get my chin about 5-6 inches from my cue. I always thought it was "normal" and everyone was like that.....I guess not though.
Click to expand...
 
Oh c'mon Frank! When you get your new stroke "built" you'll be able to just close your eyes and shoot (remember it takes awhile)! LOL Keep practicing Mother Drill 3, my friend! Give the medicine a chance to work!

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Shaky1 said:
I'm having eye issues as well. I align my dominant right eye to the right of the shaft. Sometimes my left eye takes over from there.
When I move my head a little to the left, nothing looks correct.
It's frustrating. :mad: This is why I can't aim.
I don't know how to fix it ?
Click to expand...
 
Scott Lee said:
Oh c'mon Frank! When you get your new stroke "built" you'll be able to just close your eyes and shoot (remember it takes awhile)! LOL Keep practicing Mother Drill 3, my friend! Give the medicine a chance to work!

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

I'm working on it! :smile: Patience is not one of my virtues. :o
I think I'm working on too many things at once?
This game makes me nutz! ;)
 
Shaky1 said:
I'm working on it! :smile: Patience is not one of my virtues. :o
I think I'm working on too many things at once?
This game makes me nutz! ;)
Click to expand...

Shaky1:

"You know, I heard that if you go buy 'this tip' and put it on 'this brand/model of cue' and use it with 'this aiming system', that you'll be shooting lights out with your eyes closed!!"

That's about the only way you'll satisfy that lack of patience -- and it'll get you nowhere.

Work on those drills. Keep tabs, and try to outdo your previous performance each time!

Above all, HAVE FUN! That's what our sport is about, when you get right down to it.

-Sean
 
sfleinen said:
Shaky1:

"You know, I heard that if you go buy 'this tip' and put it on 'this brand/model of cue' and use it with 'this aiming system', that you'll be shooting lights out with your eyes closed!!"

That's about the only way you'll satisfy that lack of patience -- and it'll get you nowhere.

Work on those drills. Keep tabs, and try to outdo your previous performance each time!

Above all, HAVE FUN! That's what our sport is about, when you get right down to it.

-Sean
Click to expand...

I think the probem I am running into is that I'm trying to work on 2 systems at once while still playing leagus and other things. I'm attempting to use the SEE system and SPF at the same time and it's turning into a disaster. :o
The SEE system requires your dominant eye to be positioned perfectly over the cue stick for it to work. My dominant eye is positioned right of the shaft. It is a 50 year habit. This is not as big of an issue with SPF.
I am going to drop out of the testing of SEE, not because I think there is anything wrong with the system, but because I physically cannot use it.
I think the SEE system can be a great method. At least from what I can tell of it. I can't get past the first category of shots with my eye balls. :o
 
I had no idea of what the SEE system was about. The only magic bullet I'm looking for is the one that forces me to aim properly. I don't think that should be too much to ask? The rest I can deal with and work on. When you don't trust your eyes, you are screwed from the get go.
I work every day on my stroke and will continue to.
That still does not guarantee you will make the shot. In fact, if you point the stick in the wrong place, it's almost a guaranteed miss with the best stroke in the world.
 
Shaky1 said:
I think the probem I am running into is that I'm trying to work on 2 systems at once while still playing leagus and other things. I'm attempting to use the SEE system and SPF at the same time and it's turning into a disaster. :o
The SEE system requires your dominant eye to be positioned perfectly over the cue stick for it to work. My dominant eye is positioned right of the shaft. It is a 50 year habit. This is not as big of an issue with SPF.
I am going to drop out of the testing of SEE, not because I think there is anything wrong with the system, but because I physically cannot use it.
I think the SEE system can be a great method. At least from what I can tell of it. I can't get past the first category of shots with my eye balls. :o
Click to expand...

Shaky, it's very hard to try to work on your game while you're competing in your league. You have to spend more time on the practice table; and even then, you should take lots of breaks and fit in some fun time at the table, like Sean suggests. When I'm working on something, I do it for 15 or 20 minutes with maximum intensity, and then I take a breather and just shoot for fun until I can feel myself start to relax again. Then I go back to work on my game.
 
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