Andy Gilbert vs. Judd cues

[X Breaker]

Deadstroke-

I'm not sure what the point is you are trying to make here. You seem to be saying that Gilbert is clearly better because of the workmanship which I will have to disagree with. Judd Fuller and Andy Gilbert have two very different styles. Now, style is subjective. Its a matter of taste. But from what I've seen of several cues from each cuemaker, Judd's execution is superior.

Andy has made some vey ornate and intricate cues complete with scrimshaw work. However, Andy does not do the scrimming himself. I've seen his peacocks as well, similar to the one in my avatar. He too does 2-piece peacocks however, they were not nearly as sharp or even as well aligned.

When it comes to play, I will still take a Judd hands down. His style is unique whereas Gilbert sways back and forth from traditional, classic style cues to what look like Schick knock-offs but not executed as well. Now I know I'm going to take some heat for that but I think its a fair assessment. Especially since I have owned cues by both (including a fancy Gilbert that I was NOT impressed with)!

Good point made on the persoanl style. The style was another point I wanted to make but decided to sort of said it in a subtle manner, thus my comment that Andy is not yet at his full potential.

I believe Andy Gilbert is still searching for his own style, and trying out many different things while doing so. I can see that he has the ability to build cues with many different styles, and I think he will soon be able to focus on one particular style to sort of "brand" the image of his cues.

I personally think cue making is a very tough field to get into; therefore, I have lots of respect for those who are willing to stay and keep trying and experimenting. You need to have a passion for cues and the game to keep going at it. In that regard, I have a lot of respect for Andy Gilbert's passion, determination, and willingness to experiment.

I also see that some others have also commented on the taper, which I think is a very good point. I think the two cues have very different playability. It is kind of hard to compare the two in that department. I almost think you will like one and not the other depending how you play. Without seeing the way the poster plays, I can only suggest that he tries the cue first.

Richard

 

[ribdoner]

JUDD for consistancy of play and value on the secondary market.

 

[bells]

My vote would go to gilbert cues............................very afordable at this time and they keep getting better. I saw some of his higher end stuff at valley forge............and wow were they nice and excuted well.............................i do prefer his 3/8 flat faced joint over his piolted joints..........

 

[pharaoh68]

My vote would go to gilbert cues............................very afordable at this time and they keep getting better. I saw some of his higher end stuff at valley forge............and wow were they nice and excuted well.............................i do prefer his 3/8 flat faced joint over his piolted joints..........

I too took a peek at his high-end stuff at Valley Forge and to me, it looked like the work of a kid who was trying his hardest but ultimately reaching just a bit too far. Don't get me wrong andy makes a decent cue but, his high end work is "excellent" (though not entirely original) in concept and only "good" (not great) in execution. Inlays still seem rounded. Peackocks still look short and stubby. The scrimshaw work is not his own. The style is not his own. And, I for one never liked that 1/2 inch ivory joint.

 

[deadstroke32]

Deadstroke-

I'm not sure what the point is you are trying to make here. You seem to be saying that Gilbert is clearly better because of the workmanship which I will have to disagree with. Judd Fuller and Andy Gilbert have two very different styles. Now, style is subjective. Its a matter of taste. But from what I've seen of several cues from each cuemaker, Judd's execution is superior.

Andy has made some vey ornate and intricate cues complete with scrimshaw work. However, Andy does not do the scrimming himself. I've seen his peacocks as well, similar to the one in my avatar. He too does 2-piece peacocks however, they were not nearly as sharp or even as well aligned.

When it comes to play, I will still take a Judd hands down. His style is unique whereas Gilbert sways back and forth from traditional, classic style cues to what look like Schick knock-offs but not executed as well. Now I know I'm going to take some heat for that but I think its a fair assessment. Especially since I have owned cues by both (including a fancy Gilbert that I was NOT impressed with)!

I undrestand what u r saying but .I will make this ponit .
1 andy workmenship is world class
2 I'm not taken nothin away for judd .but He to doesn't do his own scrimmshaw work not to many q makers do there own.
3 .I have been playing with Andys cues for a long time And all i see is has work gettin better n better .. Trade on the market ,in fourms ,chatroom in the street Gilbert is the first name out of mouth of a lot dealers ,players.Jus starting players ,AND pro's ..
4 And forgot one thing All of q's hit the same "GOOD" ..from j/b to high enders .
Can u tell me if a judd plays like that all the time ..Sorry i had 2 judds in my time and both played diffrent ..And both were the same woods and same tapers..and pin..

Don't feel that i'm lookin to tell u or anyone what to play with ,But .What works for u might not work for me and judds didn't work and i wasn't to big on the craftmenship..

thks ,,Deadstroke32

 

[pharaoh68]

I undrestand what u r saying but .I will make this ponit .
1 andy workmenship is world class
2 I'm not taken nothin away for judd .but He to doesn't do his own scrimmshaw work not to many q makers do there own.
3 .I have been playing with Andys cues for a long time And all i see is has work gettin better n better .. Trade on the market ,in fourms ,chatroom in the street Gilbert is the first name out of mouth of a lot dealers ,players.Jus starting players ,AND pro's ..
4 And forgot one thing All of q's hit the same "GOOD" ..from j/b to high enders .
Can u tell me if a judd plays like that all the time ..Sorry i had 2 judds in my time and both played diffrent ..And both were the same woods and same tapers..and pin..

Don't feel that i'm lookin to tell u or anyone what to play with ,But .What works for u might not work for me and judds didn't work and i wasn't to big on the craftmenship..

thks ,,Deadstroke32

Having two cues of the same wood means very little when you take into account the design. Design is going to dictate construction technique and that can seriously alter the way a cue plays or feels. If you had two cues of the axact same design, specs, and woods, then I would question the cuemaker's contruction technique.

As far as saying that Gilbert is world class, that to me sounds like you are likening him to indivisuals like Joel Herceck, Bill Shick, Paul Mottey, or Barry Szamboti. If you are, then I will flat out tell you that these individuals are in another class altogether. I'm not saying Andy is a slouch. I'm saying that he is new to cuemaking and it still shows.

True. Many cuemakers do not do their own scrimwork. ...that is why many cuemakers do not create heavily scrimmed cues. Herceck and Schick scrim their own cues. So, if Andy wants to use scrimshaw work, why not learn it?

Gilbert's do have a certain consistency to their hit and their feel but that feel doesn't dazzle me. One of the best playing cues I've ever owned was a Judd. And I regret selling it. I hit with two others that were identical and they played exactly the same. I hit with another that was completely different in design, construction, and wood selection and it too played the same.

So, again. I say Judd. Gilbert makes a good cue but Judd and Trudy do much better work in my opinion.

 

[cgriffin5]

I too took a peek at his high-end stuff at Valley Forge and to me, it looked like the work of a kid who was trying his hardest but ultimately reaching just a bit too far. Don't get me wrong andy makes a decent cue but, his high end work is "excellent" (though not entirely original) in concept and only "good" (not great) in execution. Inlays still seem rounded. Peackocks still look short and stubby. The scrimshaw work is not his own. The style is not his own. And, I for one never liked that 1/2 inch ivory joint.

Tap Tap. I saw his higher end stuff at VF and I agree also. It was nice work but I wouldnt spend that kind of $$ on a Gilbert when I get get a Szamboti, Hercek etc. I too dont like that short joint. I also dont like how he sometimes puts an ivory tip on the pin like Bill Schick. That is Bill's trademark IMO and for him to use it is IMO disrespectful.

 

[deadstroke32]

Tap Tap. I saw his higher end stuff at VF and I agree also. It was nice work but I wouldnt spend that kind of $$ on a Gilbert when I get get a Szamboti, Hercek etc. I too dont like that short joint. I also dont like how he sometimes puts an ivory tip on the pin like Bill Schick. That is Bill's trademark IMO and for him to use it is IMO disrespectful.

I hear your point but it still go back to this .What feels good to u might not feel good to me .That what makes us diffrent .But we both have some that we love the game some much that we will go on and on about this .

But I will say this "schick,szanboti.herck .rc3" cue are from the old school and some day i hope to say the same about Giilbert and judd q's

 

[raemondo]

Tap Tap. I saw his higher end stuff at VF and I agree also. It was nice work but I wouldnt spend that kind of $$ on a Gilbert when I get get a Szamboti, Hercek etc. I too dont like that short joint. I also dont like how he sometimes puts an ivory tip on the pin like Bill Schick. That is Bill's trademark IMO and for him to use it is IMO disrespectful.

While I am a Gilbert lover, I think someone else said on this thread that Gilbert doesn't have his own style. I totally agree, with the southwest like cues, the ivory-tipped pin, and the many other cues that he has made to mimic other makers.

I think that the 1/2 inch ivory joint is Gilbert's attempt to create his own style.

 

[deadstroke32]

While I am a Gilbert lover, I think someone else said on this thread that Gilbert doesn't have his own style. I totally agree, with the southwest like cues, the ivory-tipped pin, and the many other cues that he has made to mimic other makers.

I think that the 1/2 inch ivory joint is Gilbert's attempt to create his own style.

ok so what about have the other q makers that do the same and u pay a alot more ......And if i see a nother q'maker come out with a southwest stlye q i going kill myself ...

 

[pharaoh68]

I think that the 1/2 inch ivory joint is Gilbert's attempt to create his own style.

In that case, we're likely going to see another thread years down the line as to who came up with the half-inch ivory joint: Ariel Carmeli or Andy Gilbert?? And I'll be the first to say "Who Cares???"

If you want to create a new and different style, you have to try harder than the length of the joint. Carmeli has developed his own look or style. That's not to say I like it, but its there.

ok so what about have the other q makers that do the same and u pay a alot more ......And if i see a nother q'maker come out with a southwest stlye q i going kill myself ...

If you want to talk about other cuemakers and their southwest-style cues, you have to note two things:

1) 3 high and 3 low points with no frills are all going to be reminiscent of a South West.

2) Southwest only popularized the style. They did not create it. You have to remember that before Jerry Franklin started carving his niche in the cue world, David Kersenbrock showed him a thing or two.

Eveyone has their influences. The difference between 'good' and 'great' is that a good cuemaker emulates those that have influenced him. A great cuemaker draws upon his influences and uses them to create new and different styles of his own.

Deadstoke, you are right in saying that hit and feel are subjective. There is no way to determine which cue is better in terms of hit, feel, or playability as they both have their fanbases. However, in terms of craftsmanship and uniqueness of design, there is a definite frontrunner of these two horses.

 

[Love The Game]

I have used both cues and just prefer the way the Judd plays. Judd and Trudy are easy to work with, the workmanship is first rate, and the resale is pretty strong. I own a lot of big name cues and like to change sticks from time to time, and the Judd is definitely in the top 3 or 4. My cue has a flat face joint with a 3/8 x 10 pin and a long pro-taper.

BTW, I use a Gilbert J/B and I highly recommend it. Andy is also great to work with and makes a very nice cue, so you really can't go wrong either way. It is more a matter of personal preference.

Off topic, I bought a Searing last year and haven't played seriously with anything else since. It is the absolute nuts.

 

[HIRUN526]

Judd 8 pt cue

Judd uses 3/8 10 on all of his ivory jointed cues as far as I know. He doesn't like the brass hitting the ivory collar.
I once owned the prettiest Judd sneaky. Big pin and had silver stitches.

I have a 99 Judd with 3/8 10 and the workmanship is excellent and the cue has a nice soild lively hit. I have never shot with a Gilbert, but I saw his cues at Valley Forge he does some nice work. They are both excellent cue makers you couldn't go wrong with either.