Angelo Dundee, great trainer or fraud?

bdorman

Dead money
Silver Member
Angelo Dundee trained Muhammad Ali, Sugar Ray Leonard, George Foreman and scores of other championship boxers.

The boxers trusted his advice with their careers and physical well-being. He told them what moves to make...in a sport where one wrong move can mean you'll never fight again.

Angelo Dundee never even wore a boxing glove, much less fought a match. But he knew how to observe his trainee and teach him to be the best boxer he could be. What worked for Ali might be totally wrong for Leonard.

This is why I find all the arguments about pool instructors so meaningless. Just because someone can run a 100 balls doesn't mean squat when it comes to teaching. Most instructors (in most disciplines) have one way of teaching: do it like me. The great instructors OBSERVE and analyze their trainee and COMMUNICATE with the trainee about to be the best he/she can be. Whether or not the instructor can execute the shot is about as important as whether or not Dundee could throw a knockout punch.

Your thoughts?
 
Angelo Dundee also had our own Danny Diliberto in his stable.

My favorite part in Danny's book, the Road Player, was when he was being
driven to his first match. The driver told him he was over-matched, so when
he got knocked down, stay down.
Danny knocked him out early...and the driver phoned Angelo.

Angelo asked "What round did he knock him out in?"
Angelo knew things.

So the way I look at it...
A good teacher is a good teacher.

Freddy Roach aint bad, either.
 
bdorman,

To some extent, IMHO you have hit the nail on the head. A good coach, trainer, instructor, knows there is no one way & does not promote one way over another way.

Some football coaches have systems that will not work without certain personnel, they are basically committed to only coach that system. Other coaches will adapt & teach whatever personnel they have to be the best that they can be, maybe even Champions.

Many baseball hitting coaches only teach one type of swing not even knowing if they might have another Ruth or Aaron on their hands. You don't teach the likes of those to hit base hits when they have natural home run swings. Yes the Babe struck out alot but if they had changed his swing to the more conventional, where would baseball history be?

I'll leave it to you & others to make the the appropriate analogical connections to pool.

Regards &
 
Last edited:
AD was the 2nd "Greatest"....We know who was first:thumbup:


i was being a smartass and not refering or implying anything outside of boxing-i hit no nail on the head-if your above post was in referance to yours. if not my bad...
 
You can never say who will be the best for any particular person. But the comparison is also not really apt for pool because pool does not have professional coaches, at least pool in America doesn't. Pool has professional instructors and professional players who instruct.

And when it comes to getting lessons then it's probably 50/50 at least that a good instructor or a good pro will both improve just about any player's game to some degree. Since there is almost always no long term relationship, no actual coaching, it's very hard to have an objective measure of performance on the instructor's part.

You would really need to visit the road-partner relationships between players, one older and one younger, or between backers and players to have a shot at comparing the great boxing coaches to pool "coaches".

What guys consistently were able to guide their protege's to victories? This is something that isn't in the record books but I bet if you started asking around you would find that some players were damn fine coaches and some backers were damn fine managers.

Over here in China a coach is just that, a coach who gets invested in the lives of his charges. He goes to tournaments and supports his students, he trains them hard. And he gets a percentage of what they win. That's a coach. Some of them are just no-name guys who never amounted to anything as players but turned into great instructors/coaches. And others are bonafide world-beaters in their own right, from Fong Pang Chau down to guys who only play a ball under him if that.
 
Angelo Dundee trained Muhammad Ali, Sugar Ray Leonard, George Foreman and scores of other championship boxers.

The boxers trusted his advice with their careers and physical well-being. He told them what moves to make...in a sport where one wrong move can mean you'll never fight again.

Angelo Dundee never even wore a boxing glove, much less fought a match. But he knew how to observe his trainee and teach him to be the best boxer he could be. What worked for Ali might be totally wrong for Leonard.

This is why I find all the arguments about pool instructors so meaningless. Just because someone can run a 100 balls doesn't mean squat when it comes to teaching. Most instructors (in most disciplines) have one way of teaching: do it like me. The great instructors OBSERVE and analyze their trainee and COMMUNICATE with the trainee about to be the best he/she can be. Whether or not the instructor can execute the shot is about as important as whether or not Dundee could throw a knockout punch.

Your thoughts?

Great post!

Thanks
randyg
 
He might have been even better if he put on gloves, boxed, and figured out all the little subtle tricks to hit harder, move better, conserve energy, avoid the other guy's punches, and so on.

Maybe he proves it's POSSIBLE to learn something without actually doing it. Doesn't mean it's PREFERABLE.

That being said, I wouldn't turn my nose up at the opportunity to learn from a top instructor. For most of us, the problem isn't "I can't decide if I want lessons from this guy or that guy", it's "I don't have the time and money and drive to get lessons".
 
Back
Top