Another cue joint type discussion (controversy) thread

[NJ_Qball]

I have been looking through many, many threads on the discussion of joint types. Whether or not a pilot is better than flat face, if a pilot joint is used for more of an alignment versus "hit", ivory versus stainless steel, etc..

What I would like to ask is, consider a stainless steel or ivory piloted jointed cue having a nylon insert into the shaft like the Huebler sneaky pete, instead of brass.

I ask only to remove a variable in the equation of the physics discussion that tends to begin on joint seperation or energy transfer, and gain more insight into whether or not one should focus on the screw into wood feel or the screw into brass feel of the joint. The type/size of the pin (5/16x14, 3/8x10, radial) question has been pretty enlightening as well, from surface area contact of the pin to the shaft to preference, but I guess you can't ignore the pin configuration in this discussion.

Now I do not know if the brass insert goes all the way into the shaft and that is what the screw is threaded into, or whether or not it only serves as a collar. The cues I have used, it feels as if the brass insert goes all the way into the shaft. You hear/feel that "ping", nice and solid, I think, because of the insert.

But, I don't know.

Opinions?

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

The ferrule and tip will have more to do with the ping than the joint type. The brass insert is just that - an insert. Most inserts are about 1" in length, and they are threaded on the inside and outside. A hole is drilled in the shaft and then tapped out. You then epoxy the brass insert into place, threading it into the shaft. Some people feel the brass offers a more secure connection than wood threads. My personal feeling is that the joint type has little to do with the "feel" of the cue, and that most of the feel aspect comes from quality wood, taper, and the ferrule material and tip on the shaft.

 

[NJ_Qball]

Agree

I agree that the ferrule, tip, taper and wood affect the cue.

I propose keeping these variables as constants, so to focus in on the connection of the shaft to the butt of the cue. The same was proposed, I think, in the test where a piece of tape was put over the joint and players were asked to identify the joint type and they couldn't.

This may be an exercise in futility, but hey, I have some time on my hands.

Thank you for the information on the insert method also. It is good to learn at least one thing a day!

 

[HollyWood]

no controversy thread (Steel and Ivory)

I've tested Richard Blacks with Piloted Joints, and non Piloted(Ivory Flat faced and I've tested Phillippi's with Piloted and non piloted (Ivory flat faced. The Flat faced did draw the ball better and felt(you can feel too) slight difference's. These were all customs with Ivory and gold rings,from both makers,from the mid 90's. with Ivory ferrules,m morri tips mark The Ivory Flat Faced 3/8-10 won both cues. Ivory Joss West ( Flat face radial is good) and Andy Gilbert makes a great Hitting 3/8-10 Ivory flat faced. mark

 

[Wolven]

I feel that uni-lock on predator cues produces more lively hit than majority of cues. Anyone else feels that or am I just imaging it?

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

I feel that uni-lock on predator cues produces more lively hit than majority of cues. Anyone else feels that or am I just imaging it?

My personal feeling is the uni-loc is the worst joint on the market. The joint on a cue will have little to no effect on how a cue plays. There are claims that the Lambros Ultra Joint, and the Layani joint transfer more power, but I have yet to feel it, and I've hit with both cues. As far as a particular joint pin being more or less live, if you belief it does something for you, then keep believing it if it makes you play better. All the joint does is hold the cue together. I have yet to play with a cue with the magical joint.

 

[Wolven]

My personal feeling is the uni-loc is the worst joint on the market. The joint on a cue will have little to no effect on how a cue plays. There are claims that the Lambros Ultra Joint, and the Layani joint transfer more power, but I have yet to feel it, and I've hit with both cues. As far as a particular joint pin being more or less live, if you belief it does something for you, then keep believing it if it makes you play better. All the joint does is hold the cue together. I have yet to play with a cue with the magical joint.

I don't think it makes for a better hit, just different after playing with one many other cues feel a little dead at first but not worse, just different. The impression is of giving up some of the power but gaining more control.

 

[bobsbilliards]

Joint Design

I have been looking through many, many threads on the discussion of joint types. Whether or not a pilot is better than flat face, if a pilot joint is used for more of an alignment versus "hit", ivory versus stainless steel, etc..

What I would like to ask is, consider a stainless steel or ivory piloted jointed cue having a nylon insert into the shaft like the Huebler sneaky pete, instead of brass.

I ask only to remove a variable in the equation of the physics discussion that tends to begin on joint seperation or energy transfer, and gain more insight into whether or not one should focus on the screw into wood feel or the screw into brass feel of the joint. The type/size of the pin (5/16x14, 3/8x10, radial) question has been pretty enlightening as well, from surface area contact of the pin to the shaft to preference, but I guess you can't ignore the pin configuration in this discussion.

Now I do not know if the brass insert goes all the way into the shaft and that is what the screw is threaded into, or whether or not it only serves as a collar. The cues I have used, it feels as if the brass insert goes all the way into the shaft. You hear/feel that "ping", nice and solid, I think, because of the insert.

But, I don't know.

Opinions?

Correct, No discussion of joint construction is complete without the subject of the pin itself. If you notice, virtually 95% of custom cue makers use a radial, or a 3/8x10 (or11etc). This is NOT a co-incidence. A good, stout pin is absolutely necessary for the proper transfer of energy through the joint. Whatever 'feel' you are after, may be achieved by varying the joint itself ( stainless, flat faced, etc ) yet I would never recommend a uni-lock OR a quick release. In my opinion, they are garbage. Play around with a variety of options to find the one that best suits you, and the game you play. Thought for purely structural integrity, you really cant beat a radial. ( a 3/8 x10 is also good). B. Sharps - bobsbilliards@yahoo.com

 

[bobsbilliards]

I feel that uni-lock on predator cues produces more lively hit than majority of cues. Anyone else feels that or am I just imaging it?

lol, Yes, you're just imagining it.

 

[macguy]

Correct, No discussion of joint construction is complete without the subject of the pin itself. If you notice, virtually 95% of custom cue makers use a radial, or a 3/8x10 (or11etc). This is NOT a co-incidence. A good, stout pin is absolutely necessary for the proper transfer of energy through the joint. Whatever 'feel' you are after, may be achieved by varying the joint itself ( stainless, flat faced, etc ) yet I would never recommend a uni-lock OR a quick release. In my opinion, they are garbage. Play around with a variety of options to find the one that best suits you, and the game you play. Thought for purely structural integrity, you really cant beat a radial. ( a 3/8 x10 is also good). B. Sharps - bobsbilliards@yahoo.com

Responding to a pretty old thread.