Red Barn Billiards, with it's years and years of historical memories for me and my fellow players in Kingman.......................wait a minute, back to reality. It just opened in February of this year but it has already closed it's doors. This town is good for one thing and one thing only. Old people come here to die. Sad, but true. Red Barn Billiards was the best thing that could happen, for me, I thought, when it opened. 2 blocks from my house, 12 tables, and 2 tournaments a week. I think I won about $2,000 there, between the tournaments, and the small action I would create for $10 and $20 a game. The owners, Gene, and Lynn Gregor, are two really nice people that gave it their all to make this work but there was absolutely no support from the community and customers. People in this town like to drink alcohol when they play pool and are fascinated by putting their quarters into the coin slot and watch the balls drop. I really thought that a pool hall would work in this town until I saw the difference in the bar atmoshere, compared to the pool room. Oh, in case you're wondering, "Why didn't he just get a liquor license?", in this fine county of ours, Mohave County, they don't sell them anymore. Next year they are going to sell 3 of them in a lottery draw, but from what I heard, this may be for the whole state of Arizona, not just this county. So, until another pool hall tries to open up around here, I'll be stuck on the bar tables. 1 tournament a week, $5 entry fee, and lucky to get 16 players. If anyone in this forum knows how to obtain a liquor license for this county, you could have the one and only pool hall within 150 miles, no competitors, and just about wipe out the bar scene in the whole city. Peace, John.
Another Pool Hall Closing.............
- Thread starter Rude Dog
- Start date
lukeinva
Banned
My brother lives in AZ he just got a job working for the gov. No idea who it is but maybe just maybe he can get one?? I wonder??? I will have to call him and ask what he does he already told me but my bro like to keep talkin and talkin and talkin so you kinda zone out after a while.
Discouraging that so many are closing. There is no reason this should happen. The biggest concern is that when these halls close the only value left are in the assets of tables and equipment and not the value of the business. When owners want to retire they should be selling their nest egg, but there isn't one.lukeinva said:
When will people realize that bar pool is the worst thing that ever happened to billiards. It is not pool. These gamers belong in the billiard room so they can become players. The reason I got involved in iPP (www.ipoolplayers.com) is because this is a national league's attempt to get pool leagues out of the bar and into the billiard rooms. Most these national leagues are bar leagues even if they have some play in billiard rooms. Billiard rooms still have to compete with them, very dumb.
Yes poker has had its effect, though it has only recently created this effect. Bar room leagues have been and still are the shame of billiards. (Actually they have nothing to do with billiards, they are coin operated amusement games.)
Want to be a pool player? Patronize your billiard room and become a customer there. After all Johnny Archer does not pack up his cue and head down to the local tavern to practice pool. Think about how funny that sounds. Take a stand, get to your billiard room and play, whether league or not.
Sorry I just feel very strongly about this. I understand that some do not have the opportunity because of a lack of billiard halls, I hopefully this will change for you.
drivermaker
Banned
Rude Dog said:
Until they clear the place out, why don't you just ask them for a key so you can keep practicing?
How many tables did they have...what kind...and are they selling them off?
If so, how much?
Rude Dog said:
Most counties offer just beer and wine licenses that are just issued like a drivers license as long as you meet health and zoning requirements. On the second note, they should have done their homework, business does not have to be a gamble if you do your research. There are also other things that can be combined to augment income from a pizza or chicken place to an ice cream parlor. We had a pool room here that had a coin laundry that did very well till they lost the lease. You need to be a little creative. Since they have already done the work setting the place up it may be worth a little more investment as well as a little gamble to try something. Sometimes all it takes is a new owner to make a place go.
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Bruce S. de Lis
Guest
Think one of the reason many Pool Hall close is because in say in the 1960’s, 1970’s, and 1980’s Pool like Bowling was one of FEW Recreation opportunities for folks.
Today in 2005 we have how many more things we can do with our FREE TIME. Compared to 25 years ago.
Back in the 1960’s when Disneyland opened in Anaheim, Disney spent no where in proportion on advertising to get people to come to the Magic Kingdom.
Now Disney is in competition in So Cal with Laygo Land, Sea World, San Diego Zoo, Magic Mountain, etc., etc., etc.
Pool Rooms have always had a hard time making it on Pool alone. so they need Food, Drink, Beer, and maybe a Pro Shop to make it.
I know in California in the old day, any business that served Alcohol, and had a visit from the Police, or Sheriff where a report was written. A copy of the Report was sent along to the State of California Department of Alcoholic control. Too many reports, and you lost your Alcohol License.
A Pool Room weather in Kingman, LA, or ? Is a Tough Business to make it in year 2005 IMO.
Today in 2005 we have how many more things we can do with our FREE TIME. Compared to 25 years ago.
Back in the 1960’s when Disneyland opened in Anaheim, Disney spent no where in proportion on advertising to get people to come to the Magic Kingdom.
Now Disney is in competition in So Cal with Laygo Land, Sea World, San Diego Zoo, Magic Mountain, etc., etc., etc.
Pool Rooms have always had a hard time making it on Pool alone. so they need Food, Drink, Beer, and maybe a Pro Shop to make it.
I know in California in the old day, any business that served Alcohol, and had a visit from the Police, or Sheriff where a report was written. A copy of the Report was sent along to the State of California Department of Alcoholic control. Too many reports, and you lost your Alcohol License.
A Pool Room weather in Kingman, LA, or ? Is a Tough Business to make it in year 2005 IMO.
Bruce S. de Lis said:
Some very good points you have made. Were I live and most other places around the country as well (there are a very few exceptions) the bar leagues have dominated the game with what they call pool. I spent many years traveling across the country on business, I have seen it. If only a quarter of these league members played in local billiard rooms these rooms would be doing quite well and so would billiards.
The only thing we need to fix is to get those that want to be pool players out of the bar leagues and into the billiard rooms were they can become pool players.
Poker, internet and everything else does not effect these bar players. They still go to the bars to practice bar pool and play in their leagues.
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Bruce S. de Lis
Guest
pete lafond said:
Think of ALL the Bar & Pool Room is PHX AZ, Metro Sport (i-17 & Peoria) has it all covered.
Tournaments 6 Nights a Week, Bar & REAL Pool Tables, Off Track betting, Darts, and Food.
Don’t know how their books look, but when I gone down in the PM the place is BUSY...
One thing I thought ..
I always thought that a couple of moving cameras in
a billiard room that could be linked up to the internet,
so a local person could go somewhere on the internet,
and see who is out in the billiard rooms playing, any
money matches, etc.. would be kind of cool.
I always thought that a couple of moving cameras in
a billiard room that could be linked up to the internet,
so a local person could go somewhere on the internet,
and see who is out in the billiard rooms playing, any
money matches, etc.. would be kind of cool.
pete lafond said:
I think you are wrong, pool isn't a charity. Most pool rooms close because the nut is just plain too big. It takes a lot of quality square feet to have a pool room and there is a finite amount people are willing to pay to play. A guy goes in a bar with a few bucks in his pocket he can play a few games, maybe even keep the table and spend almost nothing to play. Have a few beers socialize and go home. He doesn't want to commit to playing for hours in a pool room, he just wants to play a few games. That represents 90% of the pool players. Eliminate them and you won't have anyone to sell you slip stuff to. Pool is just priced out of the market. Rents are too high to run a business like a pool room. Even if you own the building it is the same thing. Why would I want to run a pool room in a building I own that I would be lucky to scrape out $50,000 to $60,000 a year profit with a million dollars worth of head aches, when I can just rent it to an auto supply for $5000. a month sit home and not have to do anything. The pool room in today's economy may very well become extinct in many areas and is not really anyone's fault, that's just the way it is. Better be glad there are bar tables and leagues or the game itself would be on the verge of extinction.
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Bruce S. de Lis
Guest
Friend Room Closed in Flagstaff
Friend had a 20 Table Almost 6,000 Square Foot Room. He did o.k. for a while but he said you need 300 Square Feet of Floor Space/Table.
Rent on 6000 Square Feet is not CHEAP...
Friend had a 20 Table Almost 6,000 Square Foot Room. He did o.k. for a while but he said you need 300 Square Feet of Floor Space/Table.
Rent on 6000 Square Feet is not CHEAP...
Rude Dog said:
I don't know about your particular county, but in Phoenix you can get a series 6 (I believe) that allows you to serve beer. The only stipulation is that "food" needs to be primary sales over the beer sales.
The series 7 (I believe) aka beer sales without having to prove food sales you can buy. They are listed in various publications....I think the going rate is 75K to 125k....
This place has 12 tables, with room for probably 6 more. Plenty of space in between tables too. The rent was only $1,200 a month, fairly cheap, IMO, but the customers weren't there. I offered to run an in-house league, run tournaments, even a possible exhibition or a challenge match while the B.C.A. tournament was going on in Vegas, but it all went to deaf ears. When the summer time came along, this town is really big on playing softball and that's when the lack of business really hit. The lack of beer and/or wine, no food, no smoking, and nothing to offer the customers but a pool table, I'm surprised it stayed open as long as it did. I had a friend that was interested in buying it but when he found out that it was nearly impossible to get the alcohol license, he gave up. As far as the tables, I know he has sold at least 3 of them so far but I'm not sure how much he got for them. The tables aren't a brand name, maybe worth $1,000, if I had to take a guess. The owner, Gene, is not just some guy without any business experience. He owned a bait and tackle shop for 20 years or more in So.Cal. before moving here. With just a few changes and not much risk, I think he could have made it work. There are so many companies that sponsor softball teams in this town, I think the in-house league would have worked quite well. But, it's not my place, I have no say in the matter, and now it's too late. If anyone is interested in buying a table, assuming there are tables left to buy, pm me and I will find out the info for you. Peace, John.Bruce S. de Lis said:Friend had a 20 Table Almost 6,000 Square Foot Room. He did o.k. for a while but he said you need 300 Square Feet of Floor Space/Table.
Rent on 6000 Square Feet is not CHEAP...
Rude Dog said:
You can get around the liquor license by making it a private membership club where you keep your own bottle and pay $4.00 or somthing like that for the setup.Ive seen this done and its usually profitable.
Rude Dog said:
There is a place I visited in Baldwinsville NY. A very small town outside of Syracuse. The name of this place is called Michelle's. What a beautiful place. I think there are 30 tables or so. I believe this place does well because of a few reasons;
They are very respectful of their customers
The owner, Michelle, help players with their games
Very clean place
They run leagues
They have an excellent pro shop
If a place like this with very small population to support pool does well and there are many bars in the area to distract customers away, then pool halls can do well. I am on this forum quite a bit reading many of the posts, I think it is the best of the breed. Many post here have raved about some of the spectacular places they play. Well my point is that if others can do it, then so can the rest. In NYS they just allowed alcohol into bars about 6 years or so ago. Before that rooms still did quite well. What has happened is that the local tavern leagues started to pull these players away. Today with the population size of Rochester, NY these rooms are not full but bars are full of people playing coin operated games.
As long as we have leagues that support taverns, we will not turn these people into pool players. I too played in these bar leagues and was told who all the good players were. Honestly, the competition was horrible. Sure lots got 8 ball runs, but most players lacked many skills. I could never keep my interests, it just wasn't pool and may as well been home playing internet pool or something to that effect.
Bottom line, bar leagues hurt the pool hall. Other things hurt it too, but ithis one is the one to solve. A lot of marketing around the time of the movie 'Color of Money" was what got them started. It will take billiard rooms to ban together to counter this negative marketing in pool. Maybe then fewer places will be closing.
Couldn't they have made the place BYOB? Or is that against the law in AZ?
I have always thought that the pool hall business model should be flipped around. The use of the pool table should be free... as long as the patron spends a minimum amount on food or drinks. I bet you would get a lot of business if you advertised in big letters "FREE POOL!" with "2 drink minimum" in small print
. What if someone doesn't want to drink or eat? Fine, then you charge them by the hour. But at least they have an option.
I have two pool halls that I can practice at. One charges by the hour and is 10 minutes away from my house. The other is 25 minutes away, but gives APA members 2 hours free before 7pm if they spend $6 in food or drinks. Guess which one I go to?
I have always thought that the pool hall business model should be flipped around. The use of the pool table should be free... as long as the patron spends a minimum amount on food or drinks. I bet you would get a lot of business if you advertised in big letters "FREE POOL!" with "2 drink minimum" in small print
. What if someone doesn't want to drink or eat? Fine, then you charge them by the hour. But at least they have an option.I have two pool halls that I can practice at. One charges by the hour and is 10 minutes away from my house. The other is 25 minutes away, but gives APA members 2 hours free before 7pm if they spend $6 in food or drinks. Guess which one I go to?
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Bruce S. de Lis
Guest
I am not picking on Kingman, AZ but.....
Kingman is unique in many way, and Rude Dog said many Old Retirees go there to Die. Also the place is shall we say economically depressed.
One of the few places where when Mickey D’s, or Wendy's put up a “Help Wanted Sign”, they get swarmed with applicants, as Kingman offers few employment opportunities.
Remember when I was Trucking in the late 90’s pulling into the Kingman Flying J, and walking down the block to Wendy's, and finding the place was manned by retirees trying to supplement Social Security.
Use to date a Kingman Teacher, who always had a story about how many poor people were in Kingman, and many of her kids were living in Car, or One Room Down & Out Motel with a Mother, Father, or Both Parents who were in need of work in a town with little prospects for employment.
Think Kingman AZ would be a tough place to do business, or live unless you had some serious money behind you.
Kingman is unique in many way, and Rude Dog said many Old Retirees go there to Die. Also the place is shall we say economically depressed.
One of the few places where when Mickey D’s, or Wendy's put up a “Help Wanted Sign”, they get swarmed with applicants, as Kingman offers few employment opportunities.
Remember when I was Trucking in the late 90’s pulling into the Kingman Flying J, and walking down the block to Wendy's, and finding the place was manned by retirees trying to supplement Social Security.
Use to date a Kingman Teacher, who always had a story about how many poor people were in Kingman, and many of her kids were living in Car, or One Room Down & Out Motel with a Mother, Father, or Both Parents who were in need of work in a town with little prospects for employment.
Think Kingman AZ would be a tough place to do business, or live unless you had some serious money behind you.
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Bruce S. de Lis
Guest
Jimmy M. said:You really need to move from that place. Move the family to the Phoenix area if you must stay in Arizona.
Phoenix & the West Valley is BOOMBING with work if you want to swing a HAMMER....
Pool up the WAZOO...