Anyone tried CJ's TIPS banking system?

fathomblue

Rusty Shackleford
Silver Member
Wanted to see if anyone else has had a chance to work on it yet.

I've had DVD player issues, so I've only been able to literally watch bits and pieces of this video. The machine is about 13 years old and likes to skip chapters out of the blue. So, apologies that I haven't put a true review up yet. But, I do have an anecdote I can share........

With just a FEW things gleaned......literally maybe 4-5 chapters, plus what CJ showed me in Tunica.......my banking the other night was absolutely LETHAL.

At one point, we were playing a little thing I like to call "The Gauntlet". There are 3 tables at this private pool room. We all draw peas to see who matches up at which table. The 3rd table is the "King of the Hill". Basically, you have to win at the table you're on. Then you get to move to the next table, where you face the loser of the previous match, who has to stay where he's at. Once you've navigated to table 3, you attempt to win and hold it as long as you can. Once you lose at table 3, then you start all over again at table 1.

Anyway, I was smacking so many banks in the other night, and at such a high percentage, that after I ran 8 balls and dogged the 9........(yeah, yeah, I know)........I heard the guy at the next table ask his incoming opponent, "How the hell did you get past the Bank Master over there?". Even tho I had just lost, it put a lil smile on my face.

TIPS is a nice mixture of system, method and feel. The longer you play on a given table(s), the deadlier you become that given session.

After most of the players left, there was only 1 other person remaining with me. We played some 9-ball for quite a while and after I smacked in a few really, nice banks, he decided he wanted to play some Bank pool. Obviously, I was all for it.

He's pretty well known in that room as the kind of guy that......well, let's just say my nickname for him is "Captain Hook" and I always tease him about bringing the "Medicine Show" (that's a 70's music reference for you kids out there). Anyway, he just has this uncanny knack for leaving you hooked in the WORST possible ways.....and 90+% of the time, it's by complete accident. Everyone at this pool room marvels at his penchant for this. We get a good laugh out of it, at other player's expense, except when it happens to us.

Well, we played a game of Banks. I would make a bank and then scratch. Make a bank and then scratch. This happened 3 times. It was one of those messy racks with clusters and I wasn't really in the mood for defensive play, since it was just for fun. I was concentrating on the system, adjusting as I went and trying to pocket balls. He ended up winning that first rack, because I scratched so much.

Racks 2 and 3, well, I just ran over him. There was one particular shot that I actually missed, but only because the CB came around the table and clipped the OB juuuuust before it fell in the pocket. Probably one of the best banks I've ever (almost) made.

The best way I can describe the shot is that my CB was close to the long rail and almost a full diamond on one particular side of a side pocket. The OB was diagonal to it........3 diamonds away and just off the long rail........on the opposite side of the other side pocket. I had to bank the OB 2 full diamonds BACKWARDS to the pocket closest to me.......using a CB-to-OB distance that was aaaaallllllmost 3 full diamonds away. Man, I wish I could diagram it.

I honestly think I hit it as perfect as a player could hit it. The OB agonizingly trickled towards the pocket. One of those that you have time to just stare at and study. Out of the corner of my eye, I see the damn CB come around 3 rails to clip the OB just as it was going to drop. I turned around and looked at my buddy and his jaw was on the floor.

He said, "I have no idea how the hell you banked the ball backwards THAT damn far and that's some REALLY bad luck to have it get knocked away like that. It was going to absolutely split the pocket! No doubt!"

TIPS has also allowed me to actually "see" some angles that I've just never been able to "feel" in the past. It's difficult to explain. But, in the final rack, my opponent scratched. I needed 1 ball. I took a look at what I had. Sat the ball in the kitchen, at what would be a natural angle, for an easy bank. Never doubted it for a second. Smacked it in and split the pocket. Now, you think, "Well, you set up an easy, natural bank. Shouldn't have been a problem." True.

The thing is, I've not been able to really see that perfect angle so well before. And going by the TIPS system and method, I lined it up in the exact spot, with zero hesitation and just fired it in. I KNEW it would work. Now, of course, if I had hit it like I was holding a purse (no offense ladies) or I had jackhammered it, speed would have made me miss the shot. CJ, nor anyone, will tell you that any bank can be made with any speed. Speed is key. But, hey, that's what table time and warming up is for. TIPS does have a bit of feel. And there's nothing wrong with that.

By that time it was after 3 a.m., so we called it good. But, my buddy said, "I can tell you're doing something. I just can't figure out what it is."

Well, I really like the guy. He doesn't have a table at home. He's not the kinda guy that really buys videos or books, so I decided to share just the very basic principle of a 1 diamond and 2 diamond bank shot. Once he got himself lined up right and got the feel down, he began to pocket them at a pretty respectable rate, and in only a few minutes worth of instruction. Heck, I learned a little bit, just by helping him with it.

As we were unscrewing our cues for the night, he thanked me for showing him that and said there was definitely some strong stuff there.

I gotta get a new BluRay player. After last Friday night, I'm doubly excited about TIPS.

Can anyone else share their experience?

I have a fairly.....well, junkie table at home.....and it banks way shorter than the place I was at. It's almost like playing on a short-banking Diamond, rail rebound-wise, if you can believe that. It's going to take a ton of adjustment to play well at home. But, I think for more "normal", better quality tables and cushions, the TIPS method is going to work extremely well for me.

I GOTTA get a new BluRay player. And SOON.
 
Pretty good testimonial =)

I still haven't touched the table in the basement since I got home but if I ever manage to get it put together CJ's DVDs are on the top of the list in tandem with Joe Tuckers guaranteed improvement materials.....

ohh yeah forgot to ask... How are head position tricks holding up now that you are a few weeks in???

Chris
 
Pretty good testimonial =)

I still haven't touched the table in the basement since I got home but if I ever manage to get it put together CJ's DVDs are on the top of the list in tandem with Joe Tuckers guaranteed improvement materials.....

ohh yeah forgot to ask... How are head position tricks holding up now that you are a few weeks in???

Chris

Chris,.....CJ and Joe's stuff are both really great. I'm looking forward to putting more time in with both of them, as I have all of CJ's stuff and pretty much all of Tucker's.

As for the head position, I'm surprised at how quick stepping in with my lead foot/toe right on the line of the shot.......has start to feel "natural". I haven't fully burned in that "pocket" trick yet and I still catch myself trying to close one eye, but it's tough to phase out YEARS of habit. I also need to figure out a "trigger" to know when my heel is in the right place, but I'm getting it in the ballpark.

I still see that slight "shadow" over my left eye, but I'm doing my best to ignore it. When I played last Friday night, I was very fluid and shot extremely well, and to be honest was so zoned in at times that I never noticed it.

I try to learn a little bit from everyone I come across and what I gleaned from you was very helpful. I'm anxious to get with Geno again, as well, not to mention CJ.
 
I got the PPV. Watched it all the way thru a couple of times.

Then went back to chapter 1.

Since I'm a 1P player the shots that CJ demonstrates for 1P players interested me. Pretty cool, cant wait to use them.

TIP is interesting and I plan on practicing the shots to get a better feel.

As with TOI, you have to practice.

Thanks for the post and thank you CJ. (where to next?) :smile:

John
 
I got the PPV. Watched it all the way thru a couple of times.

Then went back to chapter 1.

Since I'm a 1P player the shots that CJ demonstrates for 1P players interested me. Pretty cool, cant wait to use them.

TIP is interesting and I plan on practicing the shots to get a better feel.

As with TOI, you have to practice.

Thanks for the post and thank you CJ. (where to next?) :smile:

John

John, I'll be interested to see how well it works out for you. Yea, there's definitely some strong 1P stuff in there. There's honestly shots in there that I would have said were as near impossible as could be, but once you realize the method to the madness, they're not too difficult to recreate.

I could really see this being great for 1P, Banks and 8-ball, specifically because if you have a TOUGH shot and no easier options.....you could at least bank the OB very close to the hole and clog it up......and that's if you don't go ahead and make the damn thing.
 
The TIPS Banking Secrets teaches how to recognize the potential "Free Shots"

John, I'll be interested to see how well it works out for you. Yea, there's definitely some strong 1P stuff in there. There's honestly shots in there that I would have said were as near impossible as could be, but once you realize the method to the madness, they're not too difficult to recreate.

I could really see this being great for 1P, Banks and 8-ball, specifically because if you have a TOUGH shot and no easier options.....you could at least bank the OB very close to the hole and clog it up......and that's if you don't go ahead and make the damn thing.

I got the first "dose" of this type system playing Vernon Elliot "Push Out 9 Ball".....most players know this game {2 Shot Push Out} takes accurate shot-making and you won't win by playing "safe". Vernon made several banks that had 2,3, and even 5 diamonds of angle, so they were severe, but also had a built in safety. The KEY to playing banks is understanding the safety element, especially in One-Pocket.

The fact about banks is you can't bet the game on the tough ones, so you must be able to take "free shots" to protect yourself. The TIPS Banking Secrets teaches how to recognize the potential "Free Shots" and then shows how to make them OR if you miss how to favor the "Pro Side" of the pocket - this system also works for safety play and kicking strategically.
 
CJ,

I am trying to understand how to aim in TOI. A little bit confusing for me. Here is the diagram. In "A", when I move my stick from the center by parallel movement. I shoot very firm and strong, tried different speed. In all cases the object ball does not cut well. I need to apply an extreme 2.5-3 tips shift for the ball to go like on the diagram. Am I doing something wrong? Or I need to aim like in "B"?

What confused me you are saying I need to shift the cue parallel, but at the same time when one shifts parallel, they shoot to the side making the cue ball spin sideways thus applying English. My logic is this, to avoid ball spinning, I need first shift the cue parallel, then turn it to point to the center of the cue ball like in "B" and proceed with a straight cut. Which way is correct, "A" or "B"?
Thanks,
Nick
View attachment 285375
 
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alignments for TOI are either Center/Center or Center/Edge

CJ,

I am trying to understand how to aim in TOI. A little bit confusing for me. Here is the diagram. In "A", when I move my stick from the center by parallel movement. I shoot very firm and strong, tried different speed. In all cases the object ball does not cut well. I need to apply an extreme 2.5-3 tips shift for the ball to go like on the diagram. Am I doing something wrong? Or I need to aim like in "B"?

What confused me you are saying I need to shift the cue parallel, but at the same time when one shifts parallel, they shoot to the side making the cue ball spin sideways thus applying English. My logic is this, to avoid ball spinning, I need first shift the cue parallel, then turn it to point to the center of the cue ball like in "B" and proceed with a straight cut. Which way is correct, "A" or "B"?
Thanks,
Nick
View attachment 285375

When the balls are that close together (your diagram make it seem that the balls are close together) you have to align your body shot line Center/Edge. The alignments for TOI are either Center/Center or Center/Edge depending on the angle (less or more than a half ball hit).....

Also the distance makes a difference, when the balls are closer the tendency is Center/Edge when it's a long distance shot the alignment tendency is Center/Center.

If you're over cutting long shots try aligning Center/Center even if it's a thin cut. If the balls are close and you're undercutting the shot try Center/Edge even if there's very little angle.
 
CJ. Thanks for the explanation .In my case I did not mean to put the balls close. I just would like to understand how to turn the cue, like in A or like in B? I guess the same will apply for center to center and center to edge.
 
C.J.
I purchased the ppv of "banks" a few days ago and you sent me an e-mail with the ticket link and password yesterday. So I go to the link and little pictures of the various chapters are on the right and a bigger picture of the first chapter on the left and the first thing that happens is my I-pad gives me a little message that says " this movie could not be played." Well: after the message left I tried hitting the arrow on the screen anyway and as expected nothing happened and the message appeared again. Just for the hell of it I typed in the password on the bar below the screen on the left and hit the thing that looks like a magnifying glass, but nothing happened. It's probably my fault for trying this with my first generation I-pad. I'm noticing everyday there are more things I'm unable to do on this that are available to owners of the latest version of the I-pad.
 
TOI is the only way to play

i really excited to watch and learn the amazing skills of Mr. CJ Wiley from his all new banking dvd. I have is other TOI dvds and they have elevated my game to the point of i have to try to miss a ball. I actuall can run out from anywhere. I hope all you pool players out here take the time to purchase CJs TOI lessons on dvd and really listen to what he is teaching you. There is no other billiard lesson available like his TOI system.
 
wait 10 seconds and a box will appear asking you for your code

C.J.
I purchased the ppv of "banks" a few days ago and you sent me an e-mail with the ticket link and password yesterday. So I go to the link and little pictures of the various chapters are on the right and a bigger picture of the first chapter on the left and the first thing that happens is my I-pad gives me a little message that says " this movie could not be played." Well: after the message left I tried hitting the arrow on the screen anyway and as expected nothing happened and the message appeared again. Just for the hell of it I typed in the password on the bar below the screen on the left and hit the thing that looks like a magnifying glass, but nothing happened. It's probably my fault for trying this with my first generation I-pad. I'm noticing everyday there are more things I'm unable to do on this that are available to owners of the latest version of the I-pad.

The I-Pad shouldn't make the difference in this case, maybe you're not clicking on the pictures to bring up the box to put the code in.

Try clicking on the "little pictures of the chapters" and wait 10 seconds and a box will appear asking you for your code. I'd click and paste the code into that box and you should be "good to go".

If this doesn't work let me know and I'll give you another suggestion, you paid for the video and I want to make sure you get a chance to see it. This TIP System is effective, not only for banks, but for all safety play - after all, pool's all about creating angles so when you are exposed to this method it will strengthen other aspects of your game.
 
The I-Pad shouldn't make the difference in this case, maybe you're not clicking on the pictures to bring up the box to put the code in.

Try clicking on the "little pictures of the chapters" and wait 10 seconds and a box will appear asking you for your code. I'd click and paste the code into that box and you should be "good to go".

If this doesn't work let me know and I'll give you another suggestion, you paid for the video and I want to make sure you get a chance to see it. This TIP System is effective, not only for banks, but for all safety play - after all, pool's all about creating angles so when you are exposed to this method it will strengthen other aspects of your game.
It's still not working. Apple keeps sending me that little message that says "the movie could not be played", but this has been happening lately on many other sites when I try to play video. I just did some investigating. Seems I'm a technical nitwit! I bought the I-pad a few years ago when it first came out but there have been several upgrades to the operating system since then that I was totally unaware of. I'm still using the first system. So I have to go find a computer, plug the I-pad into, and download the newest version - or at least try! We'll see what happens then. I hope I didn't scare off anyone who wants to buy your ppv's and play them on their I-pad.
 
it should be in today or tomorrow

i really excited to watch and learn the amazing skills of Mr. CJ Wiley from his all new banking dvd. I have is other TOI dvds and they have elevated my game to the point of i have to try to miss a ball. I actuall can run out from anywhere. I hope all you pool players out here take the time to purchase CJs TOI lessons on dvd and really listen to what he is teaching you. There is no other billiard lesson available like his TOI system.

I"m glad you liked the TOI Video, let me know what you think of the ;TIP Banking Secrets', your order was sent out on Tuesday, it should be in today or tomorrow I would think. It's been a long time since I've been up in your area of the country, Weldon Rogers and I were up there many years ago and took off some hefty scores.

Someone from your area told me you ran 15 racks on a bar table, is this true? What game, 9 Ball or 8 Ball?
 
a free video of your choice

It's still not working. Apple keeps sending me that little message that says "the movie could not be played", but this has been happening lately on many other sites when I try to play video. I just did some investigating. Seems I'm a technical nitwit! I bought the I-pad a few years ago when it first came out but there have been several upgrades to the operating system since then that I was totally unaware of. I'm still using the first system. So I have to go find a computer, plug the I-pad into, and download the newest version - or at least try! We'll see what happens then. I hope I didn't scare off anyone who wants to buy your ppv's and play them on their I-pad.

I'm sure you'll get it figured out, all I-Pads should play PPVs, and right now we have a special on all my Videos at www.cjwiley.com

Once you get it working I'll throw in a free video of your choice so you feel a little better about your I-Pad and modern technology. l:wink:

Enjoy your weekend
 
i have to laugh at yall and wonder at what level of play you are, i think CJ Wiley is a really good guy,and he can definitely play the game,but i think yall place too much faith in all these great players magical ideas. John Scmitt said one time in an interview before Corey and him played a match for Tar, that all this stuff is just a money maker for these guys, what works for them may not work for yall. They are champion level players and have played at high levels of competition, and have great strokes. You cant expect to be able to do the same stuff that they can do if you are playing part time and recreationally, no matter how many good videos they sell you. I am 47 years old and i can see my game has slipped a little in the last 10 years,focus,eyesight and desire has changed. I do have a buddy of mine who is 71 and still plays great, but he plays 30 to 40 hrs a week to overcome those factors. Really the older you get the more you have to play to stay in stroke, its practice man ,not watching some video about backhand english or something silly like that, just play more or else dont expect as much...sorry we are getting old and losing our abilities. Play one pocket,thats an old farts game....lol
 
he goal is to get to the level that the game is played unconsciously (in the Zone)

i have to laugh at yall and wonder at what level of play you are, i think CJ Wiley is a really good guy,and he can definitely play the game,but i think yall place too much faith in all these great players magical ideas. John Scmitt said one time in an interview before Corey and him played a match for Tar, that all this stuff is just a money maker for these guys, what works for them may not work for yall. They are champion level players and have played at high levels of competition, and have great strokes. You cant expect to be able to do the same stuff that they can do if you are playing part time and recreationally, no matter how many good videos they sell you. I am 47 years old and i can see my game has slipped a little in the last 10 years,focus,eyesight and desire has changed. I do have a buddy of mine who is 71 and still plays great, but he plays 30 to 40 hrs a week to overcome those factors. Really the older you get the more you have to play to stay in stroke, its practice man ,not watching some video about backhand english or something silly like that, just play more or else dont expect as much...sorry we are getting old and losing our abilities. Play one pocket,thats an old farts game....lol

Don't give up hope, you're not dead yet. LoL - actually the older you get the less you have to practice, however you do have to stay competitive. There's been many players play well into their 60s, and I have a feeling none of them practiced more than a couple hours a day.

Pivoting and using TOI was done back in Jersey Red, and Lassiter's day, by many top champion players. They didn't want to take the time to learn to explain these techniques because, quite frankly they're really tough to communicate. The process goes from conscious communication to sub conscious understanding, this requires much more than "just playing well," this requires an overall knowledge of neurolinguistics. (and of course having compassion for "scoffers" is something few of the top players want to deal with, and I can't say that I blame them, but it's worth it ;))

There are still a few things that the public doesn't know about when it comes to playing championship speed. These are not necessarily my inventions, I learned them from many great players and they're being used today.

Anyone that says the champion players don't have a system of playing is very naive. Every professional athlete has systems to reach their top level of performance, just because they can't or refrain from describing them doesn't mean they haven't constructed one mentally and physically.

The goal is to get to the level that the game is played unconsciously (in the Zone) with "feel". This first requires the players fundamentals to be very consistent....to the point of mastery. Golf is the same way, if a golfer doesn't have a sound, consistent swing they will play sporadically. Pool's no exception, and the margin of error in pool is even more challenging than golf.

Pool instruction is way behind golf in many ways, it's just been recently that anyone considered throwing balls in or using the Touch of Inside, and many of us have been using this system for over 20 years. Golfers also Draw and Fade their golf ball to create zones and increase margin of error, they rarely even try to hit the ball straight....it's better to "move" the ball...like in pool. 'The Game is the Teacher'
 
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"where to next?"

I got the PPV. Watched it all the way thru a couple of times.

Then went back to chapter 1.

Since I'm a 1P player the shots that CJ demonstrates for 1P players interested me. Pretty cool, cant wait to use them.

TIP is interesting and I plan on practicing the shots to get a better feel.

As with TOI, you have to practice.

Thanks for the post and thank you CJ. (where to next?)
:smile:

John

"where to next?"

You ask me to do something on the fundamentals of the stoke and how to create that "lever effect" with the forearm/wrist/fingers. I've been really focused on this lately trying to get my "old stroke" back. Through this process I'm really streamlining the technique and have been teaching it to a few students lately.

This would be an interesting topic, as it's not been revealed to the "general pool public" in any detail before. Mike Massey gave me an insight on what makes his stroke so powerful and it gave me a missing "piece" when we were in Tunica.

Let me know how you're coming along with the TIP System when you get a chance.
 
TOI Banking by Mr. CJ Wiley

I watched the toi banking dvd and am very impressed with it. It is very easy to learn CJs system and to use it. Has anyone tried the banking system on different size tables ie 7 foot, 8 foot or 9 foot? I am curious if the system is the same for any table or do we have to make an adjustent for each table size? I found that after 2 or 3 attempts at trying the banking system i determined on my 7 foot table that i had to determine the proper speed of stroke and once i did i had no problem making any of the bank shots using the TOI system.
 
remember, less distance requires more TIP to get the same results.

I watched the toi banking dvd and am very impressed with it. It is very easy to learn CJs system and to use it. Has anyone tried the banking system on different size tables ie 7 foot, 8 foot or 9 foot? I am curious if the system is the same for any table or do we have to make an adjustent for each table size? I found that after 2 or 3 attempts at trying the banking system i determined on my 7 foot table that i had to determine the proper speed of stroke and once i did i had no problem making any of the bank shots using the TOI system.

Yes, the TIP System works on any size table, the only difference is the distance relative to the TIP Target. Since you have less distance you must use slightly more TIP.

One a 9' Table a cross side bank One TIp equals One Diamond. One a Bar Table a Diamond would equal 1.25 TIPS..... remember, less distance requires more TIP to get the same results.

Glad you liked the DVD, let me know if you have any specific questions.
 
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