anyone out there know how it's figured???
wanna share??
Murf
wanna share??
Murf
APA handicapped system
- Thread starter CueJunkiee
- Start date
I used to have a paper copy of it in my pool case but after a while it got mangled. Someone posted it online on here on BilliardsDigest one time. That was about 3 years ago now. I'll try to see what I can muster.
I know this much...if you play on two different teams, and win on one....dump on the other. Then you'll always be .500 and its hard for the computer to want to move you up. I know a few locals who play 7 speed...and are 5's. They always seem to win a lot & and go to Vegas often as well. When told the .500 system...it was much clearer to me.
I was once a decent 5 as well. Then I had my Vegas trip revoked from my entire championship team, and I was banned for a year. Now I'm locked as a 7.
Good news is we have a new L.O. and she bought a new Varney cue...so all is good now. They may even consider letting me be captain again.
I was once a decent 5 as well. Then I had my Vegas trip revoked from my entire championship team, and I was banned for a year. Now I'm locked as a 7.
Good news is we have a new L.O. and she bought a new Varney cue...so all is good now. They may even consider letting me be captain again.
the APA leagur operator is my area is a pure jerk...
and it keeps alot of people from joining..
chris
and it keeps alot of people from joining..
chris
Here in maryland we have a system of our own. Its differnt from the way other leagues are rated. Some leagues are starting to use our method for there league I do know. Terry Justice runs the local league here. http://www.apapool.com
That's probably the best advice. Nevertheless, I don't think the basic concept is a secret: your handicap is based on net (of safeties) innings per win. There are a number of adjustment factors that were published in the document Fred is talking about, but that information is about 10 years old and the system seems to have changed since then.Cornerman said:
Cory
this subject has been "beat around the bush" many times,,,all the leaves are gone from the bush...LOL,,,and no truth can come out..........
I kinda made the L.O. mad and nothing I do makes my rank go down (he raised me after a SL 2 beat me 2-zip)....guess there's a lesson in there somewhere ??,,I have lost 12 of the last 15 matches in league play,,,three of those losses were to S.L. 2's,they are still 2's,,,I'm still a 4 and I ain't kissing his a@@ to lower my skill level...
I now have strong doubts that week-to-week league play score sheets ever go in any computer,,,strictly a system to rake in $,,,very much like a pyramid scheme (gotta keep the little fish coming in at the bottom),,,JMHO and will remain JMHO until someone from APA national can prove it to me that there is anything other than subjectivity in determining skill levels...
I kinda made the L.O. mad and nothing I do makes my rank go down (he raised me after a SL 2 beat me 2-zip)....guess there's a lesson in there somewhere ??,,I have lost 12 of the last 15 matches in league play,,,three of those losses were to S.L. 2's,they are still 2's,,,I'm still a 4 and I ain't kissing his a@@ to lower my skill level...
I now have strong doubts that week-to-week league play score sheets ever go in any computer,,,strictly a system to rake in $,,,very much like a pyramid scheme (gotta keep the little fish coming in at the bottom),,,JMHO and will remain JMHO until someone from APA national can prove it to me that there is anything other than subjectivity in determining skill levels...
....to make things even worse,,,there were teams at Vegas this year that did not even know their team mates names,,,,talk about made up teams to try to win at any cost,,,makes me sick......................
I heard this two weeks ago, that safties actually keep your SL # lower, because it shows your thinking more. Which i think is a bunch of BS but, atleast it sounds good lol.
All i know was in the 8ball league i am in, the first session I played, i was a SL6 after 5 or 6 matches, in which i just killed players, but was also only playing people who were 3s or 4s. Once i went to a SL6, I lost the next 16 outa 21 matches and still didnt go down.
Now this is how much of a variety there is between the Skill levels in my area for guys who are SL6s and 7s. One guy who is a SL7 played a SL6 on my team and beat him in 3 innings over 5 games. my guy broke, missed a ball, other guy ran out, he breaks makes a few balls, plays safe, runs out. Then breaks n runs 2 racks. He then breaks runs a few, plays safe, and then runs out. My guy got to shoot 3 times.
We have several guys who are SL7s and they are A speed or AA speed. And all i get is one game?
Yet i know people who have stayed a SL3/4/5/6 for years.
All i know was in the 8ball league i am in, the first session I played, i was a SL6 after 5 or 6 matches, in which i just killed players, but was also only playing people who were 3s or 4s. Once i went to a SL6, I lost the next 16 outa 21 matches and still didnt go down.
Now this is how much of a variety there is between the Skill levels in my area for guys who are SL6s and 7s. One guy who is a SL7 played a SL6 on my team and beat him in 3 innings over 5 games. my guy broke, missed a ball, other guy ran out, he breaks makes a few balls, plays safe, runs out. Then breaks n runs 2 racks. He then breaks runs a few, plays safe, and then runs out. My guy got to shoot 3 times.
We have several guys who are SL7s and they are A speed or AA speed. And all i get is one game?
Yet i know people who have stayed a SL3/4/5/6 for years.
It says in the rulebook about sandbagging that if you mark their sandbag shots as "Defensive" their skill level will go up... so that's definitely another factor, but I think it's a minor influence really. The main thing is how many innings it takes you per match and I believe how many balls you sink per inning. Who knows? the L.O. probably doesn't even know unless they're math friendly.
The thing I've seen over the past few years is that APA places a large empsis on a players "best game".
For example, if you play at a true SL4 speed, but break and run a rack, and have low innings, you may go up to a SL5, regardless of your past history.
For example, if you simply get hot, or have a lucky runouts, you get penalized for your "best game", or what appears to be.
We have a guy who was a SL6, played some great pool, but does not practice, has a new house, married, etc. He dropped to a SL5 and has been getting pounded, but, believe you me, the moment he wins a match, balm, he goes right back up to a SL6, even though he has been getting smoked all session long. I mean, it's like he loses five matches in a row to SL5s, wins a match, goes up to a SL6 for a few weeks.
That said, I think APA, when teams try, keeps the SLs accurately; A weak SL4 can beat a strong SL4, where in other leagues, like TAP, a weak SL4 my be totally outclassed by a strong SL4.
Just some random thoughts.
For example, if you play at a true SL4 speed, but break and run a rack, and have low innings, you may go up to a SL5, regardless of your past history.
For example, if you simply get hot, or have a lucky runouts, you get penalized for your "best game", or what appears to be.
We have a guy who was a SL6, played some great pool, but does not practice, has a new house, married, etc. He dropped to a SL5 and has been getting pounded, but, believe you me, the moment he wins a match, balm, he goes right back up to a SL6, even though he has been getting smoked all session long. I mean, it's like he loses five matches in a row to SL5s, wins a match, goes up to a SL6 for a few weeks.
That said, I think APA, when teams try, keeps the SLs accurately; A weak SL4 can beat a strong SL4, where in other leagues, like TAP, a weak SL4 my be totally outclassed by a strong SL4.
Just some random thoughts.
How about just winning your matches whenever you can? If you're good enough, get yourself up to a 7. Be honored when you reach the top level of handicap. Then you never have to care about how the handicaps are figured, because you're not going up anymore anyway.
Oh wait, I forgot playing your best isn't the point for many people. Many of you want to have the nuts in every match that counts even if it means sacrificing your honor and any semblance of class to keep your skill level artificially low. I think it's pathetic. It's just the APA. Is it worth being such a sleaze?
-Andrew
Oh wait, I forgot playing your best isn't the point for many people. Many of you want to have the nuts in every match that counts even if it means sacrificing your honor and any semblance of class to keep your skill level artificially low. I think it's pathetic. It's just the APA. Is it worth being such a sleaze?
-Andrew
Yeah, i know the feeling.... but not quite as skilled as you are.Varney Cues said:I know this much...if you play on two different teams, and win on one....dump on the other. Then you'll always be .500 and its hard for the computer to want to move you up. I know a few locals who play 7 speed...and are 5's. They always seem to win a lot & and go to Vegas often as well. When told the .500 system...it was much clearer to me.
I was once a decent 5 as well. Then I had my Vegas trip revoked from my entire championship team, and I was banned for a year. Now I'm locked as a 7.
Good news is we have a new L.O. and she bought a new Varney cue...so all is good now. They may even consider letting me be captain again.
I just got word last nite that I can now join back as a 4 in 8 and as a 5 in 9. Which i've been very anxious to get back on. More than likely, I hope that I can jump a level in less than a year.... my game has dramatically improved since then. Which is awkward. Got into the APA, and it dramatically improved my game, and now one year out of it got even better, and now going back in.... curious what the outcome will be. What's gonna be even more curious is how things will turn out when i form a team as well.
Sometimes...
Sometimes you have to manage your handicapp so you can field a team. Right now I can't play on my 9-ball team, because our lowest player went up unexpectedly. As a general rule, I agree with you. Do your best and adjust your team roster at the end of the session if need be. I was locked out about mid-session.
Andrew Manning said:
Sometimes you have to manage your handicapp so you can field a team. Right now I can't play on my 9-ball team, because our lowest player went up unexpectedly. As a general rule, I agree with you. Do your best and adjust your team roster at the end of the session if need be. I was locked out about mid-session.
How many 7s should there be in an area league then....or what percent....same in 9 ball...how many 9s should there be....In my opinion maybe 5....the rest 6s in 8 ball....here the dog has maybe 50 7s ....SO everyone is an A + ....bullshit...maybe a couple...realistically they have numerous Bs playing as a 7 that shoots even to an APA 7 who really is an A+..makes you wonder about the fudge factor in the APA. Yet if they gamble the A+ player has to give a lot of weight to the B...any comments
Like others said, it's not just about the individual handicaps - it's the handicaps of the team as a whole. No one wants to put together a good team only to have too many people go up in handicap and essentially kill the team.
As far as I know, every safety played counts against that player's inning count for the match, as far as handicap-calculations go - i.e. you have a match that runs 5 games, for 20 innings - that's a 4 inning/game average - but say you play 5 safeties throughout the match. 20-5=15 - which would make your innings/match average 3 instead of 4.
This is why folks who are true sandbaggers do their best to purposefully shank shots while making it look like they were trying to make it - to avoid the potential safety call.
That bit about forming two teams, and playing hard on one and tanking on purpose on the other, to manage one's handicaps - OH that's EVIL. Even though I'm totally against such an idea - I gotta love the craftiness of it
The thing is, though, such a trick *could* be handled technically. I know that the APA has a massive relational database full of every APA player's stats - and if they were so inclined, they *could* design a data mining system to sniff through this data and flag players/teams that match that sort of criteria. I wouldn't leave it to software to make the final decision - I'd simply set it up to generate lists of players/teams that the data indicates may be pulling a fast one - and let a human do the poking around and make the final call.
As far as I know, every safety played counts against that player's inning count for the match, as far as handicap-calculations go - i.e. you have a match that runs 5 games, for 20 innings - that's a 4 inning/game average - but say you play 5 safeties throughout the match. 20-5=15 - which would make your innings/match average 3 instead of 4.
This is why folks who are true sandbaggers do their best to purposefully shank shots while making it look like they were trying to make it - to avoid the potential safety call.
That bit about forming two teams, and playing hard on one and tanking on purpose on the other, to manage one's handicaps - OH that's EVIL. Even though I'm totally against such an idea - I gotta love the craftiness of it
The thing is, though, such a trick *could* be handled technically. I know that the APA has a massive relational database full of every APA player's stats - and if they were so inclined, they *could* design a data mining system to sniff through this data and flag players/teams that match that sort of criteria. I wouldn't leave it to software to make the final decision - I'd simply set it up to generate lists of players/teams that the data indicates may be pulling a fast one - and let a human do the poking around and make the final call.
Andrew Manning said:
Its more than playing your best. I give it my all every match that I play. Im a SL7 and I when Im up against a sandbagging SL4 or SL5 that shoots like god, how is that fair? I have to spot these clowns 2-3 games in a race to 5... ridiculous...