APA - Make what you take or not???

[Cornerman]

How do you guys feel about the make what you take on the break (unintentional rhyme here)?

I feel like it's a handicap in some instances - because even with a good spread you may not have a feasible shot on your group of balls.

On the other hand - if you're a good enough player I'm thinking the premise is you should be able to make a shot from almost anywhere on the table so it's almost an "easy way out" type of deal.

Your thoughts fellas?

My thoughts are that anyone who says "I understand why the APA does it like that," probably doesn't.

Take What You Make was part of the ruleset that professionals were using at the time the APA rules were put down on paper by the two professionals (Hubbart and Bell) who started the organization. There was no hidden conspiracy nor such in-depth logic (e.g. it's better for amateurs, yada yada).

The two basic rules:

Take What You Make
Slop Counts

I have several tapes from Key Mountain for 8-ball matches from the mid 80's. They were all played by those rules by professionals. There is no other reason why they started off that way. That's what Hubbart and Bell used for rules. And if people want to point to the BCA, 8-ball was played as slop and take-what-you-make for DECADES before putting optional rules of Call Shot and Open After the Break .

Is there a reason that the APA still use these rules? Because they can, and they have. You can all give whatever justification you all want on why they stay like that, but the beginning line is that they used these rules from the start.

Freddie

 

[smenzel]

I understand why the APA has this rule, but, it's by far my least favorite of theirs. The slop factor rarely comes into play.

Interestingly, I have seen a number of higher rated APA players apologize to their opponent after making a sloppy shot.

Take What You Make was part of the ruleset that professionals were using at the time the APA rules were put down on paper by the two professionals (Hubbart and Bell) who started the organization. There was no hidden conspiracy nor such in-depth logic (e.g. it's better for amateurs, yada yada).

Thanks for the clarification, Freddie.

 

[Banks]

Interestingly, I have seen a number of higher rated APA players apologize to their opponent after making a sloppy shot.

I do that, too, sometimes. Now, whether I truly am sorry is another thing.

Slop itself can be an art. Also, I'll apologize for accidentally hooking an opponent. People make it out to be so much worse than it is. Every once in a while it can make a bit of a difference, but most times it doesn't.. heck, it can even work against the player.

When it comes down to playing for something that matters.. I really don't care how much luck I get on the way to a win.

 

[Jeff Rosen]

I don't mind the take what you make rule, but the no pushout after the break in APA 9-ball can be a killer.

When I first read the title of the thread that's what I thought it was about. I once mentioned on the APA Facebook page that there should be pushes in APA, a site administrator from APA said pushouts favor the better players. I thought that was ridiculous. Better players are much more skilled at kicking and jumping, it's the amateurs that could use help when object balls are blocked.

 

[RunOut Apps]

Open Break

Just about any pro will tell you that the most important shot of the game is the break. Why should players be penalized for making a ball on the break? They shouldn't be.

If a player legally pockets a ball on the break? They should have the option to then shoot at any object ball on the table.

An open break helps your game by letting you consider all of the possible options.

 

[Banks]

When I first read the title of the thread that's what I thought it was about. I once mentioned on the APA Facebook page that there should be pushes in APA, a site administrator from APA said pushouts favor the better players. I thought that was ridiculous. Better players are much more skilled at kicking and jumping, it's the amateurs that could use help when object balls are blocked.

I had the same discussion with my LO and I agree with the APA on that one. Low level players would lose all day long to a strong player playing push rules. You said it right there.. they're better at kicking, jumping.. and shooting.

 

[cuesblues]

When I first read the title of the thread that's what I thought it was about. I once mentioned on the APA Facebook page that there should be pushes in APA, a site administrator from APA said pushouts favor the better players. I thought that was ridiculous. Better players are much more skilled at kicking and jumping, it's the amateurs that could use help when object balls are blocked.

If I'm playing a 4, 65-31 race, and the 4 can run balls, the push would help me because ball & hand kills me in that scenario.
I don't see the rule ever changing, because a low ranked player might struggle with a push shot.
Either way, executing the push or accepting the shot, I think it favors high ranked player, like a 7 or higher.
We can't get our 4's to take the right shot with ball & hand or execute a safety without a timeout, so I can assure you they would struggle with the pushout.
Then there's our two's....