APA Nationals in Vegas: table choice

Scott Lee said:
Bruce...I believe it is more related to when Mark purchased the BCAPL (Mark has been with Diamond much longer, IIRC). Up until then, the APA had used Diamond Smart Tables for the previous couple of years. Personally, I don't understand the animosity. I like both leagues...and they both have their place! :D

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
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I knew there was a good reason for me to say "if I remember correctly" in my post.....cuz obviously I sure didn't :p
 
We should be clear about a few things. Although most serious players are likely to say Diamonds are better (and I agree), it's not just the table-make. The condition of the APA Valleys is out of control. I was so disappointed by them, I refuse to play in the Nationals until this is resolved.

For the record, I know the APA couldn't care less about my thoughts so I'm not holding my breath.
 
My 2 cents:

I went to the APA event in Vegas last year. Considering the APA is a bar league in Southern California; the tables were better than what we are use to. Some tables played worse than others but non were awful. Most of the complaints seemed to come from folks who played APA in pool halls.
 
Apa

I liked e playing in the APA, gave me a chance to play pool hang out with friends and the 9-ball handicap makes you play your best game or against even a bad opponent, it's tough to out run the spot. That being said I have been to Vegas during the Nationals and have played on the tables in question. My opinion is that the amount of money that APA TOUTS that they give away and how much they say they are the biggest and the best, they do a piss poor job of proving it!

Seeig as how the APA pays little to no money for the National tournaments most of it comes for the retinal entries and the national entry fee collections, and the tables pay for them selves. It boils down to the APA not giving a rats ass about their players. Things won't improve until the LO's band together and demand a better product for their business investments! Once they start losing money they will start paying attention to the demands of the players and LO's.
 
im in the minority here in that I enjoy the National Singles and team events and the table choice doesnt bother me. Would it be better to have diamond barboxes there? Yes it would, but that doesnt stop me from playing. Have I had a terrible table there that had dead rails, bad balls or nasty table rolls? Yes I have, but again that wont stop me from going and playing in it. The events are well organized, the payouts are decent and with the non stop minis 18hrs a day I am guaranteed that I will play alot of pool when I go.

I will say that if the APA did make more efforts to improve the playing conditions, I think there would be an even higher level of participation and satisfaction with the events, and that in turn would make them more money.
 
TCo said:
I'm in agreement about Diamonds, I do prefer them over Valleys however I think no matter the level of the tournament, the players are looking for consistency from ANY table, regardless of manufacturer.

It is too many places, or maybe vendors, that have mismatched rails on tables. If one rail is dead, another hot and it differs table to table, rolls to the middle because of sagging slate, poor framework, etc, how can you perform at your best?
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I play in a local 9 ball league and we play on Valley tables and they are so inconsistent until it affects the winner of the matches often. We use about 20 tables and there aren't 2 of them that play the same! Last week I played my match on one of the Valley tables and one of the end rails was twice as fast as the other end rail. If you forgot about the rail speed playing shape two rails out of the corner you would over run your position if you were on the fast rail end of the table and played the normal speed for that shot. I'm afraid to shoot a bank shot on these tables because I have no idea how the ball is going to come off the rails! Some of the rails are dead and appear loose and others bank sharp and it really takes the fun out of playing when you have to worry about the equipment as much as playing to your potential! I've lost many matches due to rolls caused by these inferior tables. Diamond tables are the way to go, but sadly for me ill never get a chance to play on them here in Charleston, SC.

James
 
zpele said:
So in this grand plan of yours where you are good enough that it matters whether you play on a Valley or Diamond (read: spoiled and can't adapt to different playing conditions) who is going to pay for all of these multi-thousand dollar tables?



Edit: I apologize for that coming off as combative (although its true). Let me explain....

APA lets the regional directors choose where to have big events. While they probably can invest in the national event and get Diamond tables (albeit it would be pretty damn expensive) they have no control over what tables are available anywhere but there.

What you are suggesting is that all pool halls across the United States that host big events go out and plop down tens of thousands to refit their halls with Diamond tables. This is no where near realistic and will never be done. Hence the first part of my statement.

Also- you come off as sounding annoying since you skip large events if they don't have the type of tables you like to play on.

I would suggest you not advertise that fact and simply get good enough at pool so that you can adapt and win no matter what table you play on.

Also- your opponent has to play on the same table as you and while I agree that it can be annoying... that goes both ways.
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First of all, I can adapt and have to often.

What I don't consider adaptation to circumstances(ie tables that aren't good...balls that roll off when hit correctly, missed safeties that cost you matches when hit correctly but roll off...etc) or accepting a grand challenge( call it what you like but a table being off should not be your challenge or one of them) I want my challenge to be my opposition only and I want us both to play at the highest level we can without outside factors coming into play....mentioned above....

Annoying? I don't see how not going to an event because I would rather play high level events on the same quality of table that I qualified on annoying to anyone...I simply didn't go. That was my choice and it bothered no one but me....and I was fine ;)

I'm not the best pool player on the planet or even close but I play pretty well in my world. Can I beat a road player? I doubt it...Can I beat a pro? I doubt it.

All that being said, I ain't bad and you got action!
 
zpele said:
I agree with you guys. I edited my post and must have not finished when you were quoting me.

Nationals should use Diamond tables or whatever is the best manufacturer available but I highly disagree with the OP about requiring Diamonds at all events.
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I also didn't say that Diamonds should be required at all events. I do think the national event should be played on Diamonds, period. this should be a reward to those who make it to Vegas. I also think the events to qualify for the National should be held on Diamonds or at the very least, the best Valleys set up with Simonis and using aramith balls....
 
While I agree that the tables suck at nationals I do not agree that it is not within a player's ability to adapt to such conditions.

In order to win at the APA singles you need to basically win about 20 matches in a row starting from the qualifier board.

Are you all telling me that the person that wins is just getting lucky for all these matches or that they are just able to adapt to all of the factors involved?

I'm sorry but I've been in the national singles tournament and while I understand the complaints I also do not think that it is not within the ability of a good player to overcome these issues.

There are ways of playing that counteract things like bad/inconsistent rails that involve correct pattern play and correct shot decisions.
 
zpele said:
While I agree that the tables suck at nationals I do not agree that it is not within a player's ability to adapt to such conditions.

In order to win at the APA singles you need to basically win about 20 matches in a row starting from the qualifier board.

Are you all telling me that the person that wins is just getting lucky for all these matches or that they are just able to adapt to all of the factors involved?

I'm sorry but I've been in the national singles tournament and while I understand the complaints I also do not think that it is not within the ability of a good player to overcome these issues.

There are ways of playing that counteract things like bad/inconsistent rails that involve correct pattern play and correct shot decisions.
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I can't disagree that good decisions and correct patterns go a long way toward winning a match but when you get hosed by the table during this process it really is frustrating. I just like having that element eliminated from the start by having excellent equipment. Also, I think the pockets are too forgiving on the Valleys. I won't say that a great player is lucky if he wins on a table that isn't perfect, that wouldn't be true in most cases. I would expect the percentage of luck would be cut down to almost zero with near perfect Diamonds, set up correctly. Or to go with you here a little, perfect Valleys or whatever bar box they come up with for the event.
So you're playing on the same table but at no time will you and your opponent have the same lay out so obviously there will be things that favor one player in any given rack more than the other....if you are the one in the tough spot that has to make that perfect speed shot or safety wouldn't you rather have a table that you can count on when you're playing for something....and not have that critical shot go wrong by no fault other than the table...

I am a SL 7 in 8 and 9...I was an 8 in 9ball for a while but did move back down. My point is, I do know enough about pattern play and what it takes to play good pool at my level... Had two break and runs in my 8ball match last night and beat a 6 rackless...9 innings with some defense thrown in ...so I can play a little and maybe I am spoiled but so be it....this was an 8 foot table, drop pockets...

One of my good friends can run out consistently with any cue, including a break cue...he wouldn't have trouble on any table in most any condition because he's at a level I won't get to....no names but he's played pros...gambled with them....point being, you're right, some players can adapt to anything...I have a harder time than he does and always will.......

But I am more inspired and play better pool on a Diamond all day every day...
 
Mark Griffin said:
This has been stated a LOT of times.

If the APA wants Diamond Tables - they can have them.

There is absolutely no reason for them to not have Diamonds.

It would cost them no more than having the Valley's.

They 'yanked' our relationship after I bought the BCA Pool Leagues - when all I wanted to do was to help pool and protect the BCA league system.

Keep in mind that the APA was the pushing force of the BCA to sell the leagues.


Mark Griffin, CEO
CSI - BCAPL - USAPL
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Thank you for your comments Mark, I appreciate it. It's a shame really.
 
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