APA --playoffs rules question

[Celophanewrap]

So if you're shooting and people are cheering at the next table, you won't complain, you'll just focus more? I think you should be considerate towards everybody in the immediate vicinity. If the people at the next table are gambling and they complain about your cheering, you're going to tell them to "just focus more?" I'd pay to see what happens next.

Oh, I agree, 100% I agree. But as an APA player I recognize my environment and I don't expect the bar to settle down and be quiet while I shoot, and while I wish everyone was polite and considerate that just ain't the way it is. Some people cheer and laugh and yell and I would even venture to say that a certain amount of sharking does occur within the bounds of The APA. When you play weekly play in the APA, you're in a bar (usually) or a pool hall with people that aren't always pool players and have no idea what the general etiquette should (or shouldn't be) and I'm not so arrogant that would dare to tell other bar or pool hall patrons "Hey, I'm playing so can you be quiet and stay out of my line of sight" To me that would be rude beyond some team cheering for their player. I play in a bar, it's probably gonna be loud, I try to not let it bother me.
We do, I think everyone tries to be considerate but some folks are just way too sensitive and it only gets worse if they are losing. I have told people to focus on their own table and admittedly it doesn't always end well but I've never had that experience when playing a meaningful match, and by meaningful match I mean at our National Qualifier or in Las Vegas. There you're with other pool players and as a group I think we all understand each other at that level. In a bar on league night people drink and yell and laugh talk, breathe.... my feeling is that you should learn to deal with it or start entering Turning Stone and the Joss Tour, the US Open and stuff like that where it never happens. Recognize your environment, it is what it is.

 

[KRJ]

Gents, focus more. The OP is NOT talking about APA league, but APA playoffs.

I don't play much APA, but did play last session and went to playoffs. The LO even has the shooter sit at the other teams table when he's in a match. You can't talk to your player, period. Might be the same elsewhere, don't rightly know.

No talking at all unless there is an official coaching timeout by either side. I mean, you can ask you team for a bridge, or grab your chalk, etc.

 

[Skippy27]

So if you're shooting and people are cheering at the next table, you won't complain, you'll just focus more? I think you should be considerate towards everybody in the immediate vicinity. If the people at the next table are gambling and they complain about your cheering, you're going to tell them to "just focus more?" I'd pay to see what happens next.

YES, learn focus more and I would gladly tell anyone that said a word to me or my group while we played.

A vast majority of the time people are in "bars" which is a public area with multiple tables and games going on, jukebox kicking it, people not even there to play talking and laughing and sports games going on in the background that has people cheering and yelling.

If you can't focus on a shoot in that environment, then maybe you shouldn't be there shooting and should be in one of those boring as hell quite pool halls. That is if you can find one.

 

[justadub]

Gents, focus more. The OP is NOT talking about APA league, but APA playoffs.

I don't play much APA, but did play last session and went to playoffs. The LO even has the shooter sit at the other teams table when he's in a match. You can't talk to your player, period. Might be the same elsewhere, don't rightly know.

No talking at all unless there is an official coaching timeout by either side. I mean, you can ask you team for a bridge, or grab your chalk, etc.

Anyone is allowed to talk to anyone, unless its their turn at the table. ie once the cueball stops rolling.

 

[justadub]

My team is very vocal and at local level and even states never had a problem. Some teams just take this way two serious.

I've had conversations....... And you guys haven't heard anything more about it, pretty much taken care of at the time.

 

[KRJ]

Anyone is allowed to talk to anyone, unless its their turn at the table. ie once the cueball stops rolling.

At playoffs, COC or citywide, that's what I'm assuming he's speaking about. We just played this weekend.

You had to sit in front of the others teams table. You could not talk to your team unless someone called a coach. If the other team called a coach, you could then talk to your team. Other than that, nothing. I actually quite liked that part of it

Of course, that was of course, in our match, I was shooting with bih, on a hill/hill match, winner advances, and teammate called a coach. Didn't need one, as I was just charting the area to get on the 8ball that had a few blockers, so the window was small and was taking my full minute to check it out.

He called coach, whoops, I had a coach earlier when they reminded me about the bih in kitchen after break scratch... I said I don't play much APA so sometimes I forget them. So, now I give up bih, and my opponent has bih and we lose.

Oh, he had no clue what to do, but thought I was not sure for some odd reason (way too many Bud Lights most likely) So, I had NOT had a drink all day, but I paid the price for alcohol anyways,,,wtf ??
Oh well, win some and lose some

 

[Celophanewrap]

At playoffs, COC or citywide, that's what I'm assuming he's speaking about. We just played this weekend.

You had to sit in front of the others teams table. You could not talk to your team unless someone called a coach. If the other team called a coach, you could then talk to your team. Other than that, nothing. I actually quite liked that part of it

Of course, that was of course, in our match, I was shooting with bih, on a hill/hill match, winner advances, and teammate called a coach. Didn't need one, as I was just charting the area to get on the 8ball that had a few blockers, so the window was small and was taking my full minute to check it out.

He called coach, whoops, I had a coach earlier when they reminded me about the bih in kitchen after break scratch... I said I don't play much APA so sometimes I forget them. So, now I give up bih, and my opponent has bih and we lose.

That's funny, cause if I understand you and the situation you describe none of that's a foul, as written in the APA Manual. You have strange local rule in your strange local land

 

[skip100]

APA is supposed to be fun. There's beer, people cheer, whatever, that's great. Just don't be a dick about it. It sounds like the OP's team are dicks about it, which is why he admits others have complained about them. Since we don't know exactly how dickish the team is or the exact rules of their league, this is a question for the league operator, not us.

 

[DaveM]

It's all fun and games until somebody loses an eye.

 

[mantis99]

I have a question about rules during APA playoffs. My team is very vocal/supportive/fun during our matches. Before we shoot, during the match, they will chant, "LET'S GO RICH!!!" (Or whoever). Never while the other team shoots. The other teams get upset, but I think we are within the rules and not sharking.

Thoughts? Is it supposed to be absolutely silent during high level tourneys?

I don't think it is sharking as long as it is not done during the other teams turn. That being said, I myself would find this highly annoying. I am all for having fun, but it sounds a bit childish at the level and frequency you are describing it at. Cheering each other on is great, but maybe once or twice in any game is more than enough in my opinion. Remember that this is a competitive environment that requires concentration, not a frat drinking party.

 

[RichSchultz]

APA is supposed to be fun. There's beer, people cheer, whatever, that's great. Just don't be a dick about it. It sounds like the OP's team are dicks about it, which is why he admits others have complained about them. Since we don't know exactly how dickish the team is or the exact rules of their league, this is a question for the league operator, not us.

I don't think we're dicks about it at all! We were up 46-14 after only 3 matches and the other team was frustrated. It was more a matter of their inability to win. The cheering just upset them more...not our fault. But, as I said earlier, not our intent to upset them. More about cheering us on and having fun.

 

[jojopiff]

I have a question about rules during APA playoffs. My team is very vocal/supportive/fun during our matches. Before we shoot, during the match, they will chant, "LET'S GO RICH!!!" (Or whoever). Never while the other team shoots. The other teams get upset, but I think we are within the rules and not sharking. Chanting makes it sound as though it's done several times.

Thoughts? Is it supposed to be absolutely silent during high level tourneys? This question is phrased differently than what you've described above.

The question you're asking isn't necessarily what you described above. IMO, nobody is going to question or get even slightly upset if you say "Let's go Rich!!" when it's his turn to shoot. However, I could see it being quite annoying if you're chanting "Let's Go Rich" over and over and over.

And, people comparing it to other people in the bar not playing and messing with jukebox or whatever, it's different, IMO. The patrons of the bar owe me nothing and are free to do whatever they do. My opponent is given the utmost respect and I expect that from them in return. Not that this necessarily falls into disrespectful.

I also find it funny how a couple people who cheer loudly and/or obnoxiously think people who are annoyed by this are the ones "taking it too seriously".

 

[RoadHustler]

Division Rep FWIW

I have a question about rules during APA playoffs. My team is very vocal/supportive/fun during our matches. Before we shoot, during the match, they will chant, "LET'S GO RICH!!!" (Or whoever). Never while the other team shoots. The other teams get upset, but I think we are within the rules and not sharking.

Thoughts? Is it supposed to be absolutely silent during high level tourneys?

OK so my opinion as a division rep whose team has gone to vegas twice. At a division playoff its not really an issue as its still local play. Its really rude to the other matches going on but your gonna get away with it.

But at Tri-cups or at your State Championship its a big issue.

Both Tri cups and states are considered higher level tournaments and are to be conducted like nationals. At nationals a ref may give you a warning for disruptive behaviour if he/she feels like it but they don't have to. They are allowed to just penalize you. I was warned for standing up to go the the bathroom and tripping over my backpack. Shouting GO RICH!! at any point in the tournament room will get you a warning because it is disturbing the other matches going on see section 1 of the rules of conduct.

At Nationals as a team you are expected to sit at your side of the table and if there are not enough chairs players without a chair are expected to sit in the bleachers outside the tournament area.

Here is a quote from the National Championship program:

Rules Of Conduct- The APA has established and will strictly enforce the following conduct rules for higher level tournaments play.

1.No loud, abusive or profane language will be tolerated at this tournament. You are in the league to have a good time and to enjoy some friendly competition. If you experience a problem, one of the tournament officials will address it; simply bring the matter to our attention. Remember that in each situation the ruling will favor one side against the other side, and it is required that each team or player accept the official rulings without causing a scene.

2.Unsportsmanlike conduct directed to the opposing player, team or tournament official is not allowed.

3.Anyone involved in an incident that includes either physical abuse or the throwing of an item will be disqualified immediately and required to leave the tournament premises.

4.Anyone caught hitting a cue against the table, wall, floor ect., or recklessly swinging a cue will be disqualified immediately and required to leave the tournament premises.

5.Abusive behavior directed to the Tournament Director or any of his designates will not be tolerated.

6. Excessively slow play will not be tolerated. You will be warned before any penalty occurs.

The Penalties for violating any of the six categories detailed above are as follows:

A warning may or may not be given, depending upon the severity of the situation.

Penalty level 1- your opponent will be given ball-in-hand. If the payer is still shooting, or already has ball-in-hand, then that player will be allowed to shoot until missing, and then be given ball in hand again.

Penalty level 2- Your opponent will be granted the game. (In 9 ball, your opponent will be granted the game, along with points for all balls remaining on the table)

Penalty level 3- Your opponent will be granted the match.

Penalty level 4- Disqualification

Note: If the violation of disturbance that caused the initial penalty level to be levied does not cease, the Tournament Director and/or designated assistant has the right to go from one penalty level to the next penalty level immediately

Warnings- If a Warning is given in an individual match, that warning will follow the team throughout the remainder of the event. For example, If a player from the same team is warned for sharking his opponent, the result will be ball-in-hand for the opponent. Such warnings will be noted by a tournament official on the scoresheets.

 

[KRJ]

That's funny, cause if I understand you and the situation you describe none of that's a foul, as written in the APA Manual. You have strange local rule in your strange local land

They went and got the ref, he came over and said, yep, if you attempt to give a second coach, it's a foul. If I had ASKED for a coach, my team could have turned me down with NO penalty.

Of course, the other team knew right away it was a foul. I had no problem with it, if that's the rule, I can live with it. My team mate felt just awful, but I said no worries, shit happens, it's just a pool game, I'll live somehow

 

[WGDave]

Rich, is this APA league at a bar, or pool hall?

APA where many live is exclusively at pool halls, including where I live.

Personally, I won't play competitive pool in a bar. Seen way too many "fun" pool games turn in to parking lot brawls.

 

[RichSchultz]

Rich, is this APA league at a bar, or pool hall?

APA where many live is exclusively at pool halls, including where I live.

Personally, I won't play competitive pool in a bar. Seen way too many "fun" pool games turn in to parking lot brawls.

Very large, well established pool hall. Mr Cues 2 in Atlanta.

 

[Celophanewrap]

They went and got the ref, he came over and said, yep, if you attempt to give a second coach, it's a foul. If I had ASKED for a coach, my team could have turned me down with NO penalty.

Of course, the other team knew right away it was a foul. I had no problem with it, if that's the rule, I can live with it. My team mate felt just awful, but I said no worries, shit happens, it's just a pool game, I'll live somehow

I think that must be a local rule. In Las Vegas a couple of years ago I found that a couple of the Chicago teams played by rules a little more closely related to what you might think of as real pool that weren't APA rules. When they tried to enforce them they became angry that they were not APA rules. The whole time out issue can be a gray one. Simply calling an additional time out when you don't have one isn't a foul, I believe the manual even says just remind your opponent that they don't have any more time outs, of course I'm paraphrasing but you get the meaning. If it's a continuing thing where you have a history of always trying to get more time outs and the league office gets wind of this they could begin to call sportsmanship fouls, but something like that is at the discretion of your league office.
It's good that you'll live, I'd hate to see that epitaph - "He died from too many time outs"

 

[jojopiff]

They went and got the ref, he came over and said, yep, if you attempt to give a second coach, it's a foul. If I had ASKED for a coach, my team could have turned me down with NO penalty.

Of course, the other team knew right away it was a foul. I had no problem with it, if that's the rule, I can live with it. My team mate felt just awful, but I said no worries, shit happens, it's just a pool game, I'll live somehow

This is true where I live also.

I think that must be a local rule. In Las Vegas a couple of years ago I found that a couple of the Chicago teams played by rules a little more closely related to what you might think of as real pool that weren't APA rules. When they tried to enforce them they became angry that they were not APA rules. The whole time out issue can be a gray one. Simply calling an additional time out when you don't have one isn't a foul, I believe the manual even says just remind your opponent that they don't have any more time outs, of course I'm paraphrasing but you get the meaning. If it's a continuing thing where you have a history of always trying to get more time outs and the league office gets wind of this they could begin to call sportsmanship fouls, but something like that is at the discretion of your league office.
It's good that you'll live, I'd to see that epitaph - "He died from too many time outs"

I live/play in Colorado Springs and what ChicagoRJ said is true here also.

 

[Celophanewrap]

I live/play in Colorado Springs and what ChicagoRJ said is true here also.

That's a consistent issue within the APA, too many different rules from place to place.

From the APA Team Manual:

General Rules 11(b)
... Mark the coachings (also called time-outs) with a 'T' to avoid confusion. In any event, taking too many coachings will not be considered a violation of the rules, although consistant attempts to take too many coachings may result in a sportsmanship violation. It is up to you to notify your opponent if he is taking a coaching he does not have coming. Disagreements are handled just as any other protest or dispute

 

[Billiardsfan]

"At playoffs, COC or citywide, that's what I'm assuming he's speaking about. We just played this weekend.

You had to sit in front of the others teams table. You could not talk to your team unless someone called a coach. If the other team called a coach, you could then talk to your team. Other than that, nothing. I actually quite liked that part of it

Of course, that was of course, in our match, I was shooting with bih, on a hill/hill match, winner advances, and teammate called a coach. Didn't need one, as I was just charting the area to get on the 8ball that had a few blockers, so the window was small and was taking my full minute to check it out.

He called coach, whoops, I had a coach earlier when they reminded me about the bih in kitchen after break scratch... I said I don't play much APA so sometimes I forget them. So, now I give up bih, and my opponent has bih and we lose.

Oh, he had no clue what to do, but thought I was not sure for some odd reason (way too many Bud Lights most likely) So, I had NOT had a drink all day, but I paid the price for alcohol anyways,,,wtf ??
Oh well, win some and lose some "

This should be brought up to the national level and discussed with them. The LO's are not allowed to CREATE a ball in hand foul that does not exist in the official rules book. I would definately send an email to the national office. Your LO is making up rules as they go.