APA Question???

AceAngeles

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
A player is about to shoot a shot, the Coach calls time out a second before the player shoots. The player doesn't hear the coach and instantly shoots. Nothing to do with illegal strategy, it happened too fast. Was a time out officially used or because the time out actually never occurred the player is not charged with a time out?
 

AceAngeles

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This happened in league play. It caused a minor disturbance. The opposing team marked it as a time out, the player being a "4' had no more time outs available. I'm not sure what the official ruling is? My common sense said the time out never occurred. Is the rule different in local league, Regional or National event?
 

cue fix

Will "MONSOON" & SEARING!
Silver Member
ok. i found a rule. If a coach calls time out it is considered used even if the player didn't want it, but if the player calls timeout and the coach refuses, then no timeout is used. I myself disagree with this rule because as the shooter if i say i do not want the timeout because i want to do what i was planning regardless if it makes the team made. I should have that right without being penalized my timeout that I may call myself later in the game. Just because someone with a higher rating thinks they know a better move, should tell me what to do. sometimes they have a higher rating just because they have a better stroke not necessarily better thinking. my downfall is an inconsistent stroke, not thinking
 

David in FL

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
ok. i found a rule. If a coach calls time out it is considered used even if the player didn't want it,

I’m not 100% sure that pertains in this case. It sounds as if the player didn’t “refuse“ the time out. They just didn’t hear it…

.Just because someone with a higher rating thinks they know a better move, should tell me what to do. sometimes they have a higher rating just because they have a better stroke not necessarily better thinking. my downfall is an inconsistent stroke, not thinking

With few exceptions, a good coach shouldn’t “tell you what to do”. They’re going to ask what you‘re thinking, and then offer positive encouragement and/or alternatives.

It’s also worth mentioning that players who are lower rated due to an “inconsistent stroke“ sometimes fail to realize how much that inconsistent stroke may lower the odds of making a particular shot. They know that they’re capable of making the shot, but might overestimate their likelihood of doing so.

Again, a good coach should simply be offering alternatives, and maybe some insight to the odds of success…
 

cue fix

Will "MONSOON" & SEARING!
Silver Member
I’m not 100% sure that pertains in this case. It sounds as if the player didn’t “refuse“ the time out. They just didn’t hear it…



With few exceptions, a good coach shouldn’t “tell you what to do”. They’re going to ask what you‘re thinking, and then offer positive encouragement and/or alternatives.

It’s also worth mentioning that players who are lower rated due to an “inconsistent stroke“ sometimes fail to realize how much that inconsistent stroke may lower the odds of making a particular shot. They know that they’re capable of making the shot, but might overestimate their likelihood of doing so.

Again, a good coach should simply be offering alternatives, and maybe some insight to the odds of success…
Whether the player refused or did not hear the timeout, the result is the same LOSS of timeout. I am not about to argue, but in your statement your are mentioning an exceptional coach or what a coach should be, but they aren't all great coaches and any team member can call the timeout not just the coach. just as an example from me about coaching and knowing that we all have our own stroke whether it be a soft stroke or hard stroke. I have explained a shot to someone as I know what speed to hit the ball with my stroke to get it from mid table to end rail and back to mid table again. so I may say to the lower rated player hit the ball with a medium soft stroke and say to them you want to get the ball to the end rail and then back to here and image how hard to hit the ball and then they hit the ball and it goes to the end rail and then all the way to the other end rail and they think that is their medium soft stroke and maybe it is. so next time i would need to say hit it with a soft stroke.
 

NathanDetroit

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
ok. i found a rule. If a coach calls time out it is considered used even if the player didn't want it, but if the player calls timeout and the coach refuses, then no timeout is used. I myself disagree with this rule because as the shooter if i say i do not want the timeout because i want to do what i was planning regardless if it makes the team made. I should have that right without being penalized my timeout that I may call myself later in the game. Just because someone with a higher rating thinks they know a better move, should tell me what to do. sometimes they have a higher rating just because they have a better stroke not necessarily better thinking. my downfall is an inconsistent stroke, not thinking
Your idea of coaching seems a bit more restrictive than what happens in league.

A player should listen to advice, but that player must know he is free to make the final decision. And, a lower ranking player may call time.

I advise players I will refuse their timeout request if they are well and truly hooked. They are told to look for a ball to tie up. If there is hope, we talk.

Once, a player growled "I don't have to listen to you" (I was not the captain and cops seem to have issues with rank), and he proceeded to sell out a winnable rack.
 

AceAngeles

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You guys are missing the question. If the Captain calls a time out and the player immediately shoots because he did not hear it, is it recorded as an official time out or because the time out actually never occurred, no time out is recorded. I can't find the answer in the rules book, that's why I'm asking opinions or answers on what the real ruling would be.
 

stumpie71

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Once an eligible player (coach, captain,teammate) calls a time out then it is used. Regardless if the player immediately shoots, refuses, does not discuss the situation, doesn't matter the timeout is burnt.
Page 28 c,d, and e in the rule book.
Several people already answered the question correctly.
 

PracticeChampion

Well-known member
Absolutely not helpful but I use to call timeouts on my guys, especially the better players just to F with them, I'd walk up say something stupid, we'd laugh and carry on til next time 🤷🏻‍♂️
 

Rickhem

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You guys are missing the question. If the Captain calls a time out and the player immediately shoots because he did not hear it, is it recorded as an official time out or because the time out actually never occurred, no time out is recorded. I can't find the answer in the rules book, that's why I'm asking opinions or answers on what the real ruling would be.
This happens occasionally. Maybe more than occasionally. The rules state that if a sideline teammate calls the timeout, it's a timeout. The player cannot refuse it, the timeout stands. The team can refuse the players call for a timeout, but the player can't refuse one. The reasoning to me is that if a coach or a teammate calls a timeout as the player lines up, it's a message that it isn't the right shot that they're taking.

Now all that said, almost anyone in my league wouldn't hold that as a timeout given the situation you referenced. Almost. :rolleyes:
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
This happened in league play. It caused a minor disturbance. The opposing team marked it as a time out, the player being a "4' had no more time outs available. I'm not sure what the official ruling is? My common sense said the time out never occurred. Is the rule different in local league, Regional or National event?
Mistake one... applying common sense. 🤷‍♂️

When you're in a league housed with players looking to gain an advantage at all costs, expect to run into these situations. The point of a time out is to assist a player. In this situation that clearly did not happen. The sportsman would let that non-timeout slide. Sad, when people cling to rules in the hopes of hindering a player at a later time.

I would never suggest that any league is immune from that type of ploy. However there is one in particular where this type of move is a common occurance. <---based on my exposure to multiple leagues
 
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AceAngeles

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Stumpie71,
Yes in rule D it states "if any member of the team suggest a time-out to the shooter, the time-out will charged." If the shooter didn't hear it, it wasn't suggested to the shooter before he shot! What if the player obviously didn't hear the time-out being called before he shot? That's the question in hand. Just as Rickhem mentioned, in the past I've never seen anyone hold that to an official time-out because it was never consummated. There was no advantage given to the player, so how can it be considered a time-out. The whole concept on the section for "Coaching Rules" is to make sure a player doesn't get an unfair advantage. In this situation no advantage was given to the shooter.
 

David in FL

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Your idea of coaching seems a bit more restrictive than what happens in league.

A player should listen to advice, but that player must know he is free to make the final decision. And, a lower ranking player may call time.

I advise players I will refuse their timeout request if they are well and truly hooked. They are told to look for a ball to tie up. If there is hope, we talk.

Once, a player growled "I don't have to listen to you" (I was not the captain and cops seem to have issues with rank), and he proceeded to sell out a winnable rack.

When I find myself in an interesting situation, I’ll sometimes call time out and ask one of my lower rated players to come “help me“. It gives everybody a chuckle, but more importantly provides the lower rated player with a bit of a teachable moment that might benefit them sometime in the future.
 

wacokid9ball

New member
If the coach calls the time out, it counts. By calling the time out, he is letting the shooter know he is not shooting the correct shot. If the player ask if he needs a time out and the coach says no, the coach did not initiate the time out.
 

Fatboy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I’m tempted to applaud you for this. 😝
I have a longer list 😃

However I do support league as it puts cues I peoples hands and they have fun. It’s just not for me personally. But I’d never knock league play in general. It’s good for pool on many levels. Equipment manufacture, room owners, etc.
 
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