APA Rule Question

banditgrrr

banditgrrr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Playing 9 ball, what is the ruling if your team goes over the 23 handicap level in the 5th match? I've heard that you only forfeit that match and I've also heard that you forfeit all your points for the entire night. Does anyone have experience with this? It is not playoffs, regionals or nationals. It's just a regular league night.
 
banditgrrr said:
Playing 9 ball, what is the ruling if your team goes over the 23 handicap level in the 5th match? I've heard that you only forfeit that match and I've also heard that you forfeit all your points for the entire night. Does anyone have experience with this? It is not playoffs, regionals or nationals. It's just a regular league night.
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Around here, from what I remember it goes like this..

First time in the season, it's a warning..

Second time, you forfeit all 5 matches.
 
29. TEAMSKILL LIMIT RULE INOPENDIVISIONPLAY -
23-RULE
The total of the skill levels of the five players
fielded in any teammatch cannot exceed 23. A
team playing fewer than five matches must show
that it would not have exceeded 23 if the five
matches had been played. If the 23-Rule is broken,
the offending team would receive zero points for
that League match. The non-offending team would
receive all points they won plus 1 point for the
match in which the 23-Rule was broken and any
subsequent matches.
 
TheNewSharkster said:
29. TEAMSKILL LIMIT RULE INOPENDIVISIONPLAY -
23-RULE
The total of the skill levels of the five players
fielded in any teammatch cannot exceed 23. A
team playing fewer than five matches must show
that it would not have exceeded 23 if the five
matches had been played. If the 23-Rule is broken,
the offending team would receive zero points for
that League match. The non-offending team would
receive all points they won plus 1 point for the
match in which the 23-Rule was broken and any
subsequent matches.
Click to expand...


I read this too but didn't understand it. Because it referenced "plus 1 point for the match...." I though that referred to 8 ball. If this rule applies to 9 ball, then it wouldn't be a 15-0 forfeit, it would be a 1-0 forfeit. There was a reference to "5 matches" and then forfeiting a match which is why I thought you would only forfeit the 5th "match"
 
banditgrrr said:
I read this too but didn't understand it. Because it referenced "plus 1 point for the match...." I though that referred to 8 ball. If this rule applies to 9 ball, then it wouldn't be a 15-0 forfeit, it would be a 1-0 forfeit. There was a reference to "5 matches" and then forfeiting a match which is why I thought you would only forfeit the 5th "match"
Click to expand...


Being that it was your fifth match, your team will receive the points from the matches won and one point for the fifth match. If the team broke the 23 rule in the fourth match you would have received 1 point for the fourth and 1 point for the fifth match, plus any points won from the legally played matches. Hope that helps
 
Several different responses. Our LO said that we receive zero points for the night. That just didn't seem right. Not sure if there's an avenue for appeal or not. The only reason it's a big deal is that we were in first place with one week left to play. If we get zero points for the night, it drops us to 5th and we're out of the playoffs.
 
banditgrrr said:
Several different responses. Our LO said that we receive zero points for the night. That just didn't seem right. Not sure if there's an avenue for appeal or not. The only reason it's a big deal is that we were in first place with one week left to play. If we get zero points for the night, it drops us to 5th and we're out of the playoffs.
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If your team was the offending team then you will not receive any points and your LO is correct. Sorry for the bad luck. The non offending team is the only one that receives points.
 
I believe you have sunk yourselves. Why would you do that? Just forfit the last match or see if they'll agree to a make up match.
Were you missing players or are you guys top heavy?
 
We had 6 players. I typically keep score on 9 ball and watch the skill levels. I was playing 8 ball and wasn't aware of who the team put up in the fourth match. As soon as I finished playing 8 ball, our captain said I was up in 9 ball. I won the lag, broke, and the other team immediately called the over 23.
 
This is the Official Answer!!!!

This is directly from the Team Handbook.

The overall team skill limit rule is 23. If the 23-Rule is broken, the
offending team would receive zero points for that League match. The
non-offending team would receive all points they won plus 15 points for the
match in which the 23-Rule was broken and any subsequent matches.

Page 65 Sub Paragraph 1.

Black Cat :cool:
 
banditgrrr said:
We had 6 players. I typically keep score on 9 ball and watch the skill levels. I was playing 8 ball and wasn't aware of who the team put up in the fourth match. As soon as I finished playing 8 ball, our captain said I was up in 9 ball. I won the lag, broke, and the other team immediately called the over 23.
Click to expand...

Sounds like your captain needs to pay more attention.
 
23 Point Rule in 9-Ball

Refer to page 65 in the new 2013/2014 team manual

The overall team skill limit rule is 23. If the 23-Rule is broken, the offending team would receive zero points for that League match. The nonoffending team would receive all points they won plus 15 points for the match in which the 23-Rule was broken and any subsequent matches.

Local bylaws can determine how this is handled in certain league areas during the regular season. Make sure you have read a copy of your local bylaws. In some league areas you forfeit the entire match if you break the 23 point rule.
 
If its the the last few weeks of the season and your team doesn't have a chance, you can purposely play over 23. :confused:

If playing one of the underdog teams, this gives them a boost with the extra points.

Basically you can help decide which other team gets into the finals.

:D

:grin-square:
 
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If you break the 23 rule you forfeit all the games played that night. And you can't forfeit the last match if you don't have a player who # don't make or less the 23 rule. I had a team try to play a 7 two 6 and a 3 then wanted to forfeit the last game. I forfeit all his games he didn't have a 1 on his team. If he had a 1 on his team he could have forfeit the last game no problem. and tried to get over. You always need to make the 23 rule even when you forfeit... Dom APA nyc

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2
 
phade said:
If you break the 23 rule you forfeit all the games played that night. And you can't forfeit the last match if you don't have a player who # don't make or less the 23 rule. I had a team try to play a 7 two 6 and a 3 then wanted to forfeit the last game. I forfeit all his games he didn't have a 1 on his team. If he had a 1 on his team he could have forfeit the last game no problem. and tried to get over. You always need to make the 23 rule even when you forfeit... Dom APA nyc

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2
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Wrong, if you can't make 23 with 5 players then you have to forfeit the last match and make 19 with 4 players that becomes the new limit. 15 if you can only play 3.

Black Cat :cool:
 
You can play 23 or under and still only have four players and not forfeit the entire match, as long as you have a player on your team roster that would fill it out to 23. Say, if you played four players and your total was 21, you could only forfeit the last match if you had a 2 on your roster, then by the book you had five players and one of them forfeited.

If you didn't have a 2 in this scenario, then you have to have four players at under 19. The 19 on four players rule only comes into effect when you don't have a person of the appropriate skill level on your roster. Another example would be, say your four players added up to 21 again, and you did NOT have a 2 on your roster, THEN you would forfeit the entire match as you would have had to have been under 19.

Now, keep in mind, the skill level 2 does NOT have to be there on the premises to forfeit, they just have to be on the roster, and of course they still have to pay :).
 
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For further discussion:

Isn't there a provision in APA that a signed scoresheet is a valid scoresheet? In other words, if the opposing team signed the scoresheet, that indicates their acceptance of your team exceeding the 23-rule. Some LOs and bylaws allow teams to - in rare and very infrequent circumstances - exceed the 23-rule.


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