Apa rules?!?!?

You put them both in the pocket, they're pocketed. APA rules are meant to prevent disputes and there are a ton of ways to handle this that would cause a dispute. The rule is pretty clear - drop them in the pocket, no debate.
 
APA is played on all brands and sizes of tables. Some venues may be already be using 10' Diamond Pro-Cuts, while at the other end of the spectrum you have a coin-op barbox with cloth that hasn't been changed since the beginning of time.

fastone371 said:
Just another reason for APA to go to Diamond Pro-Cut tables. You cant jaw 2 balls like that, they wont fit.
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bad_hit said:
You put them both in the pocket, they're pocketed. APA rules are meant to prevent disputes and there are a ton of ways to handle this that would cause a dispute. The rule is pretty clear - drop them in the pocket, no debate.
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This precisely is my interpretation of APA. It's a "bar league"... Meant to have fun and as few disputes as possible. In the specific situation last night, neither was over the edge past "no return". If 1 ball had stopped exactly where the 2 jammed, it would NOT have fallen. However according to the APA rules that my team and I agreed to play by when we signed up, they BOTH are to be considered "down". My issue lied in the fact that a league rep, and league manager BOTH said "pick one up".
 
I don't speak for the APA, but I'm an APA ref and a former APA league operator so I definitely have some experience with rules questions. My take on all things APA is to consult the rulebook, work it out between the team captains, and use common sense. If you really can't agree after that, call the LO. It's really not supposed to be so letter-of-the-rule based. It's the spirit of the rules you have to keep in mind.
 
bad_hit said:
I don't speak for the APA, but I'm an APA ref and a former APA league operator so I definitely have some experience with rules questions. My take on all things APA is to consult the rulebook, work it out between the team captains, and use common sense. If you really can't agree after that, call the LO. It's really not supposed to be so letter-of-the-rule based. It's the spirit of the rules you have to keep in mind.
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And hence we have the issue. You have morons, yes morons, that know the rule, know the spirit of the rule, yet will argue until they are blue in the face to get a call the way they want it. This is true of every league out there, not just the APA. I think it is more apparent in the APA because they are the largest league in the world, they cater to low level players that don't know or fully understand the rules or the spirit behind them and on top of that you have unethical players that try to exploit that to their advantage because their egos need that.

So I would disagree with your comment slightly. It is like the moron that argued with me about a double-hit not being explicitly mentioned in the rules thus there is no foul for doing it. We can keep the spirit of the rule and the actual rule in mind, but he would not agree it was a foul. I had my player take BIH and finish the game thus the match. He can argue with the front office if he wants.

In this case, if a ball or both balls center axis that would normally be touching the felt keeping it on the table is beyond that threshold causing them to fall then the ball or balls get dropped and play continues. If it is the 8 ball to end the game or a cue ball scratch on the 8 ball that would end the game, then the balls get dropped and the game ends. If this can't be determined by the players then they call a 3rd party, if it still can't be determined a coin flip determines it. The 3rd party / coin flip is the final decision. The rules are clear about that, unless of course one of the players fits my description in the first paragraph in which case they are wrong, you move on as mentioned and they can whine about it the rest of the night.
 
ShakesSea said:
Right, and you and I are probably in agreement on what that means but this is league and any vagueness to the rules are interpreted to one's own advantage then argued beyond reason.

Here's how the argument would play out.

Me: Those are considered down. You lose.

Opponent: No, the rule says "Drop them in and resume playing the game unless the pocketing ends the game." The pocketing would end the game so you don't drop them in. Good luck with that out.

Me: No, no, the pocketing ends the game so you don't resume playing. The game is over.

Opponent: If you actually read the rules it specifically says: "Drop them in and resume playing the game unless the pocketing ends the game." The "unless" negates the "drop them in." Resume playing.

Me: The "unless" negates "resume playing" because the game is over.

Opponent: Resume playing.

Me: Drop them in.

Opponent: RESUME PLAYING!

Me: WHAT'S MY OUT?

I can almost guarantee you this exchange has taken place in some form in some APA match.
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Your out is the English language. In that sentence, "unless" refers to the nearest verb, which in this case is "resume". In order to be applied to "drop", the sentence would have be written like "Unless it would end the game, drop both balls and resume playing."

There are probably numerous instances in the team manual where the wording of a sentence gives it a meaning that was not intended, but this is not one of them.
 
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