APA ruling question

R

rukiddingme

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I had this situation happen last Thursday.
An APA match was in progress when the opposing team called a coach.
While coaching their player on how play the shot the coach begins to eye the shot with the cue and stroking the cue. The cue hits the cue ball. The cue ball travels about 15 inches and while still rolling (ie. it would have travelled more than 15 inches) the coach picks up the cue ball and puts it back to its original position. The coach is an SL5 and knows better.
We are the 1st place team and they are in 2nd with 1 week to go.
This is an obvious blatant foul which results in a ball in hand.
I called the foul and was immediately admonished for calling a "ticky-tac" foul. A big broohaha ensued. I was told by the opposing team that this is a fun league and that I should let it go. My response was that even though this a "fun" league we abide by the rules and if that was a problem maybe they should not play in an organized pool league. BTW, this foul is has been called before by other teams and there has never been an argument about it.
What would you have done?
ruk
 
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Although I hate those situations, that was a blatant and stupid foul, not ticky-tacky at all. It is one of those fouls that has to be called. Where do you draw the line? I never call ticky-tacky fouls, and I definitely would have called that one.

What is tacky, is the "coach" stroking the ball as if he is taking the shot. I mean he's not giving a lesson, just a little coach
 
You were right, they were wrong.

I might have been tempted to let it go if they called the foul on themselves and conceded ball in hand right away, and they were cool people to start, but that's a lot of if's.

Demanding or expecting the favor was pretty pathetic.
 
One of the reasons I quit playing in leagues. They are meant to be "fun." Having all those league rules gives the game structure and fairness which is what leagues are all about(fairness I mean). But the second you use those rules to call an obvious foul that no other time should be ignored unless it's practice, and even then it doesn't help much to ignore them then (unless you are playing with a girlfriend who doesn't really care to learn anyway :mad: ). Not to mention I believe in APA it is a foul for the couch to even stroke the cue at the table in the first place. League play to me is fun when the game is taken seriously because in reality there is money on the line for the people paying yearly dues on top of weekly dues on top of table time to play this sport. Any foul no matter how small should be called, Amatures play the game to learn the sport and on the whole improve their playing with exceptions of course. And in that light you can't ignore some rules and follow others or what was the point in the first place...
 
Unless they changed it, the APA rules state that a coach is not supposed to have a cue in his hands at the table while coaching.
Steve
 
Foul.

Don't even think twice about it. The other team just wanted things to work out their way, and were upset when it didn't.
 
You are 100% correct. It is a fun league, but you still have to abide by the rules. If you don't then the cheaters come out of the wood work. It is by no means a ticky tacky call. I might be inclined to let it go if the cue ball moved 1/8 of an inch. But you are clearly in the right here.
 
I would say that the coach stroking the cue stick , pointing , aiming , directing , whatever ...is fine if he is on the same team ( which I assume he was ) .....

However , moving the cue ball is a foul and ball in hand to the opponent ...
 
pooltchr said:
Unless they changed it, the APA rules state that a coach is not supposed to have a cue in his hands at the table while coaching.
Steve
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's now okay for a coach to place the cue ball in ball in hand situations. Not sure when it was changed. I know it was okay last year

f. Coaches may place the cue ball for a player in a ball-in-hand situation
during a time-out. Coaches may not mark the playing surface ........ etc.
 
Da Poet said:
Yeah, it's now okay for a coach to place the cue ball in ball in hand situations. Not sure when it was changed. I know it was okay last year

f. Coaches may place the cue ball for a player in a ball-in-hand situation
during a time-out. Coaches may not mark the playing surface ........ etc.
Click to expand...

I knew about that one...I was talking about the coach having a cue STICK in his hands at the table while coaching.
Steve
 
Da Poet said:
Yeah, it's now okay for a coach to place the cue ball in ball in hand situations. Not sure when it was changed. I know it was okay last year

f. Coaches may place the cue ball for a player in a ball-in-hand situation
during a time-out. Coaches may not mark the playing surface ........ etc.
Click to expand...

The coach was not placing the cue ball on the table in a ball in hand situation. He struck the cue ball with the cue and it moved about 15 inches. The cue was firmly in his hand...not like he accidently dropped it. He was pretending to shoot the ball and he actually did.
ruk
 
I would like to know too

Because I sub for my brother's VNEA team, and the opposing team had coaches with the cue in hand stroking the cue ball too. To me, it should not be allowed.
 
pooltchr said:
I knew about that one...I was talking about the coach having a cue STICK in his hands at the table while coaching.
Steve
Click to expand...

It's okay now for coaches to do this. I'll handle the player's cue in rare cases if I really need to see the shot, but I kind of hate this leniency that's allowed. I see plenty of coaches who get down on the shot with the player's cue and vigorously practice-stroke the shot. I haven't seen anyone foul like this yet, but I keep waiting for the day so I can call a foul and call the coach a dumb schmuck.

I would not call this a ticky-tack foul since there is too much stupidity involved with the coach causing the foul.
 
rukiddingme said:
The coach was not placing the cue ball on the table in a ball in hand situation. He struck the cue ball with the cue and it moved about 15 inches. The cue was firmly in his hand...not like he accidently dropped it. He was pretending to shoot the ball and he actually did.
ruk
Click to expand...

That's okay, I knew that. Sorry if I implied something else. You're still right in my book. lol
 
Vnea

Snapshot9 said:
Because I sub for my brother's VNEA team, and the opposing team had coaches with the cue in hand stroking the cue ball too. To me, it should not be allowed.
Click to expand...

Maybe your VNEA region is different than mine, but coaching and timeouts have never been allowed. It was that way in Las Vegas also when I played in the national team tournament last July. I've never seen a coach in Valley.

It's been over a year since I last played APA, and I remember the rule was changed so the coach could not have a cue in hand while coaching. That may have changed, but I don't think that a timeout should be used to give a pool lesson. In addition, the middle of the match isn't the time to change someone's style of play, it never works. A timout should just be to help with things like shot selection, speed, position, and when to play safe.
 
cuesblues said:
Maybe your VNEA region is different than mine, but coaching and timeouts have never been allowed. It was that way in Las Vegas also when I played in the national team tournament last July. I've never seen a coach in Valley.

It's been over a year since I last played APA, and I remember the rule was changed so the coach could not have a cue in hand while coaching. That may have changed, but I don't think that a timeout should be used to give a pool lesson. In addition, the middle of the match isn't the time to change someone's style of play, it never works. A timout should just be to help with things like shot selection, speed, position, and when to play safe.
Click to expand...

I have been in the APA for 6 years, and since I have started the Coach has always been able to place the cue ball if the player allows it. The rule is this way so if the player says no, and a foul is made while setting the ball in place it is the players fault alone, and not the coach. Also, there has never (in the last 6 years) been a rule against the coach having a cue in his hand or using a cue to sight out a shot while coaching.

As for the foul in this thread, it was not a minor foul, it was a hugely stupid foul by that coach, and arguing the fact that it should not have been called made him even more stupid.
 
cuesblues said:
Although I hate those situations, that was a blatant and stupid foul, not ticky-tacky at all. It is one of those fouls that has to be called. Where do you draw the line? I never call ticky-tacky fouls, and I definitely would have called that one.

What is tacky, is the "coach" stroking the ball as if he is taking the shot. I mean he's not giving a lesson, just a little coach
Click to expand...

Agree 110%

I would have called foul too. I've barely moved the cue and people didnt call foul and I've done the same to others I've played. But for the cueball to move THAT far by someone that wasnt even taking the shot I would have called foul no matter who moved it. Thats way too far to move to let go IMO.
 
Actually,you shouldn't have to "call" this one at all. This cueing coach should have just picked it up and apologised to his player while handing it to you.
 
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