APA Skill Level

landshark77

landshark77

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Silver Member
Hello Jennifer,

I have read from several sources that you were active in the APA in your amateur years. I was hoping that you could answer a few questions about that experience. When you started in the APA what type of experience did you have with pool and what was your skill level ranking? Did you play in the APA until you got your Pro points? How long did you play in the APA? What was your skill level when you left the APA? How long did it take you to progress that far? (If your starting skill level and end skill level were different.) And did you play APA 8 ball or 9 ball? If you played 8 ball, did you find the transition to 9 ball difficult?

I'll give you a quick overview of my background since I asked you so many questions, LOL. (Or is it because I like to talk about myself??? :confused: ) I started in the APA when I was 21 (almost 7 years ago! :eek: ). I was in the process of learning everything, including the proper way to hold a cue. I was sooo bad, thus I started as a 2. I really didn't care to much about pool...I gotten into it because of this boy, now my husband. (Yep, the pool trick works!!!) I stayed a 2 for a few years....then I started actually making balls and I won a few times...so I advanced to a 3. I started playing better, but I was more concerned with playing the slots (they are legal here) than getting time in on the table. Then about a year ago I caught the pool bug....bad... in a major way. I actually tried on the table and I let the game effect me. I have gotten so much better in this past year and people notice it and tell me all the time. I will play the pool now every chance I get. I love it and I want to get better. I am now a SL 4 (since about December... but my win percentage is pretty good, IMO.) I have only played APA 8 ball and that is my best game. However, I am starting to branch out and trying to play in more tourneys, learn different games, and what not....

Oh and to you lurkers, please chime in if you feel the need....that goes for you Pros and Semi-Pros too. :p
 
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Hey LS77,

The APA was my first league! I started playing pool at Chelsea Billiards in Manhattan in 1998 and from the first day I picked up a cue I was playing every day (9 ball) and taking lessons. After about 3 or 4 months someone who I saw in there every day (fellow forum member Jude Rosenstock) approached me and asked me if I wanted to be in a league. I laughed and told him that I just started playing and wasn't good enough to play competitively. He told me how the APA worked, and I finally agreed.

I started the league as a 3, as all women do, but I won my first match to a guy who complained so badly to the league operator that the next week I was a 7. After a few weeks I leveled off at a 4. I played in the APA without taking a season off until 2002 and during that time I got a chance to go to the Nationals in Vegas individually and as a team. My final skill level was a 6. I left the APA about a year before I turned pro only because I was working a regular job and I could only practice at night and I needed that night for practice.

The APA was a fun experience and it taught me a lot about competition...sometimes I miss those days!

Jenn
 
Hello again Jenn,

So you went from a SL3 to a SL7 and then tapered off to a SL4 after a few weeks! You must have played damn good for just starting out! Is a 2 the lowest SL in APA 9 ball? The highest is an 8, right? From comments I have heard around my area, people are awfully presumptuous when it comes to estimating what a Pro's APA rating would be. Generalizing, what would you say most of the ladies on tour would be ranked in the APA??

Oh, and thank you for your first reply. :)
 
landshark77 said:
Hello again Jenn,

So you went from a SL3 to a SL7 and then tapered off to a SL4 after a few weeks! You must have played damn good for just starting out! Is a 2 the lowest SL in APA 9 ball? The highest is an 8, right? From comments I have heard around my area, people are awfully presumptuous when it comes to estimating what a Pro's APA rating would be. Generalizing, what would you say most of the ladies on tour would be ranked in the APA??

Oh, and thank you for your first reply. :)
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Actually in APA 9-ball, the lowest is a SL 1 and the Highest is a SL 9.
 
JennBarretta said:
Hey LS77,

I started the league as a 3, as all women do, but I won my first match to a guy who complained so badly to the league operator that the next week I was a 7.

Jenn
Click to expand...

This is the one thing that has kept me from playing in handicapped leagues and tournaments.

I was in a new town visiting and decided to play in a USPPA event for the first time a while back, the guy who invited me to play (who was supposed to know my game as we had been playing before) put me as a 55, then as luck would have it, I drawed him the first round, and beat him real bad, I think 7-2. He complained to the TD and the TD put me up to a 75 without even watching me shot a single game(again, he took the word of this friend of mine, except this time, my friend suggested that I should be a 75 becasue he lost to me real bad when I was a 55!) And he told me he would put me higher when I win my next match. He even used the term "sandbagger," which really offended me.

No one ever explained to me how the handicapped system work so I really cannot rate myself. As of today, I still do not know what 75 means, not that I really care.

I was supposed to play in that tournament for that one night just for fun because my friend asked me to, and it turned out to be one of the worst night of pool I have ever had.
 
landshark77 said:
Hello again Jenn,

So you went from a SL3 to a SL7 and then tapered off to a SL4 after a few weeks! You must have played damn good for just starting out! Is a 2 the lowest SL in APA 9 ball? The highest is an 8, right? From comments I have heard around my area, people are awfully presumptuous when it comes to estimating what a Pro's APA rating would be. Generalizing, what would you say most of the ladies on tour would be ranked in the APA??

Oh, and thank you for your first reply. :)
Click to expand...

this happens alot..........a new player plays very well their first match, then someone who has nothing better to do complains to the league operater, who in turn thinks they have a "ringer" in the league and raises their level to what they think appropriate. then when its all said and done the computer does its work and puts them where they need to be. i saw someone go from a 4 to a 7 in 8 ball (which is the highest you can go) because they beat the league operator........well that isn't saying much.........by the end of the session he was a 3.........

the first time i played apa, i started as a 4 in 8 ball (as every male does) and the next week i was a 6........played as a 6 a couple weeks, went to a 5, then after a while i was back to a 6 and now i've worked my way to a 7 after 2.5 sessions......problem is........i dont' get to play alot.

i started 9 ball recently......as they didn't have a league i could play in until recently for 9 ball (which i prefer over 8 ball) i am a 7 in 9 because of my 7 in 8.........i haven't lost much, but i haven't played much either because of the ranking.

as i've said in other threads, i just play in the apa because there are no weekly tourney's here to keep me in stroke, so i use this as a means for "competitive practice"

as far as where pro's would rank.........in my opinion, most of the women in the top 15 or so would be in the 7-9 range.

there seems to be a huge difference in the men though, as most 8s and 9s male apa players i've met need right much weight from pro men players. i'd have to say that the top male pros would be like a 12 or 13..........LOL

just my .02

thanks

VAP
 
Hey LS77,

We never had an APA 9 ball league in NY so it was 8 ball. The skill levels went from a 2 (which only a woman could be) up to a 7. In my estimation most pros in the top 16 would be a 6 or a 7 depending on their 8 ball prowess.

Nippon & VA,

This is the one drawback to any handicapped league, and why I don't really enjoy playing in them. You invariably have people who sandbag and never get raised and then you have others who have a career match and get punished for it. It's usually the sandbaggers who complain the loudest about everyone else, too.

Jenn
 
7

APA7 is by far the widest band in the APA handicapping system. Most of the C+ players I've played in the NYC Tri-State tour are APA7s. C would equate to APA6, D+ to APA5 etc..

A top woman pro would be rated around B+ which is a long way from the top male pros. I think Ginky was spotting Karen five games in a race to 11 and the break to make it a competitive match. Saying that, Jenn took him all the way in a recent tournament. Jen, you should have had him! ;)
 
OK, i have a stupid question since we are on tha rating topic lol

I have been trying to get a tournament series started, for 9ball, and was throwing around the idea of Keeping the A and AA rated players out of them.

Well someone asked what makes a player rated A or AA lol

Now i have to chime in about this subject too since i dont play APA

But anyways in the 8ball and 9ball leagues, there is normally the same couple of teams going to Vegas every yr. one of the guys who goes Mike, always seems to have a Career day the first day he is out there, playing 8ball, and goes from a 5 to a 6 lol.

Now another guy i know, went to a tournament in Canada last yr, and he is i believe a 7. He was facing a girl who was a 3. Now he told me the only reason he won, was this girl got bad position on a ball. But she would break n run the rack without a coach. He ended up winning only because she missed two balls.

Now the other thing i think is wrong with the leagues around here, is the rating system is messed up. Because we have guys going out to Vegas and they get thier butts handed to them playing even or lower rated players.

Which makes me think the owner of the APA league in my area inflateds everyones rating to boost everyones Ego lol.

but thats my opinion


Dave
 
Hey Hobokenapa,

I could've won that match, dangit! Oh well, you live and you learn.

Hi Dave,

I think the toughest job in the world would be a league operator in a handicapped league. They should all be paid at least six figures.
 
JennBarretta said:
Hey Hobokenapa,

I could've won that match, dangit! Oh well, you live and you learn.

Hi Dave,

I think the toughest job in the world would be a league operator in a handicapped league. They should all be paid at least six figures.
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God, if only that were so!

I have to say though, the most unfortunate thing about pool is handicapping. It has to be the only sport that needs to protect its amateur ranks from professionals.
 
Jenn,

Well, i am not sure how much the league Operator is making, but, you should hear the Horror stories that happen when it comes time to plan the trip to Vegas every yr lol.

And i know the league operator isnt make 6figures outa his area, and that is basically because you have the same teams going to Vegas, every yr.

and trust me you should hear the horror stories about the teams going to Vegas. Thats why i wont play APA in my area.

dave
 
i play TAP out of my home room, i like it a little better than APA.....i think the league structure it built a little better to weed out the "baggers" .....there are still some, but noe they are 7's :D

sorry to butt in on your thread jenn...........btw...i love the new wallpaper.... :)
 
i play both tap and apa and have to say i enjoy the tap much more. the handicapping in our area seems to be alot better in the tap. my girlfirend just started in the apa( 9 ball)and in her first match she played another girl who is supposed to be a 1 handicap. ( this girl has played enough matches to have a set hadicap) well it took the girl 3 innings to kick my girlfriends head in! this girl was making shots and putting together 5 and 6 ball runs! sounds more like a 4 or 5 handicap to me! i did exact some revenge for my girlfriend though on this same girl last night( she is still a 1 handicap,dont know how!) i am a 6 handicap and i beat the girl 46 to 2 ! i gave her one chance to shoot and i hope she knows how it feels now. that is why i like the tap league. i have only run into a a situation yet where a guy seems to be shooting 2to 3 under their handicap. i dont mind someone who is one off their hc(we have all been in this situaton ourselves) but to shoot someone who is 2 to 3 under hcpd is insane.i think the apa could do a couple things to make their hcp`s where people quit trying to cheat them. one is that they should raise the team hc total to 25 . which is where the team hc is in the tap league. the current 23 limit is to low for a team to stay together long term without people trying to tweak their hcps.what happens is you recruit people and the they learn and get better you become overhcpd and you have to get rid of players or sandbag so you can stay together! the other thing i think they should do is ( if they keep the same 23 limit) is adopt a half hcpd system. for people that end up on the border you could have 3 or 3.5 hcp 4 or 4.5 ...... if you know what i mean. these are my main reasons why i enjoy tap more than apa. it seems to me that the apa creates such a low team limit to encourage the forming of more teams when you get over hcped. and i think this is okay to a point but what ends up happening is you introduce the game of pool to a bunch of new people and end up with alot of them quiting. the thing i have noticed about the tap league is teams are able to stay together and it creates more diehards!the level of play in this league is far and away much better.i dont want to sound like i am dogging the apa because i love playing in the league i would just love to see them change a few things . does anyone else agree with any of this?????? sorry for getting off the starting subject here but the last post kind of got me going into this. would love to hear from more of you tap leaguers and apa ers ??? on what you think?? thank you
 
First...Hey Jennifer!...Congrats on making it to the T.V. Rounds...think your a great player...think the ladies tour has really got it together!

Now about APA Handicaps...I agree they could do some tweaking...I see it all the time...my current 8-Ball Team is going through it right now...if one more player rises we will not be able to post to 23, and the in-house operator is playing on our team just because we need a three...but she is not eligible to play divisions or nationals...so our second place standing is going to be for naught!...I have made noise that team hc should be raised to 25 also...this would allow teams to grow and stay together longer...two's and three's are such a rare comodity that I don't think you will see stacked teams like everyone fears...granted a team would be able to post five 5's...but I've never seen this, and if it does happen, it won't last, someone will fall to a four...and you can practically do that now...three 5's, two 4's...and everyone has had that strong four nightmare!...I know I have...
 
I had a similar experience when I played on an all girl team out of Manhattan called Octopussy. We won the city championship which got us to Vegas, but then they immediately raised our 3 to a 4 and me and one of my teammates were ineligible to play in Vegas because of the point cap. We could only sit and watch our teammates play. Then we ended up losing to a team of 3's and 4's that got dq'd in the final for sandbagging. It was a team of guys that were really 6's and 7's. It was a nice vacation, though.

Jenn
 
The 23-rule is necessary, but it does discourage improvement and encourage sandbagging. The way I think it should be done is your handicap at the beginning of the summer season is used for the 23-rule (assuming you've played at least 20 games). Then you can form your team without getting into handicap problems in the last few weeks of the Spring session. If someone goes up from practicing, working hard and improving then it should not get punished. The player obviously plays at their new skill but for the 23-rule, the original skill is still used.

So, if your team was 5,5,5,4,4,4,3,3 at the beginning of summer, you can always field any team (even if a 5 goes to a 6). Once the APA year is over, your '23 handicap' gets set at the highest level you reached during the year.

I think this would cut sandbagging enormously, and ultimately allow players to get more enjoyement out of the game, and maybe even more players (which equals more money to the APA).

APA relies on teams breaking up a team killed by the 23-rule into two teams to get more revenue. The percentage of teams that renew after a season is staggering low, but the percentage of new teams is high. This is how it works.
 
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