Automatic aiming

I have come across some videos discussing this and it should be termed shooting with muscle memory. It is not really aiming at all. It encompasses your walking, chalking, stance, drop, english, stroke...all of these are being done subconsciously.

Like when I hear players talk about its 2 tips of left english, or that its a half ball hit or 30%, 60% etc I just roll my eyes.
First of all there are an infinite amount of points on the cueball so you can never purposefully ever hit the exact english you are trying to. I don't think its ever even possible to hit center ball...you are always imparting some sort of english. Secondly, there are an infinite amount of degrees between 30% half ball hit to 60%...so all this half ball hit stuff is garbage because there is no such thing as exactly a half ball hit. Not to mention there is deflection, swerve and throw to take into account, and distance for all of that to take, and speed etc...good luck figuring all that out deliberately, and consistently. If you could figure all that out deliberately, you would still need to deliver the cue perfectly to complete the shot, but if you could deliver the cue perfectly to complete the shot, then you already have the muscle memory for the shot and don't need to be deliberate about it at all...in fact you will mess yourself up.

The only way to play consistently and at your best level is to get out of your own way and let your body do the shooting...it will account for all of these "infinites". I never stand above a shot and think about what english I need, or the path of the cueball, or the speed...all of this is done subconsciously...even standing behind the cueball is not done in a deliberate way like foot placement etc...its all subconscious as well. I basically walk from shot to shot, landing on the english I need for the shape I want, and deliver the cue at the speed I need. That's it.

You do need the fundamentals, and if you see me play my fundamentals are sound, but it is NOT deliberate.

The only way to get to this level is to play and let your body remember every possibility so eventually it starts to recognize situations and will go on autopilot.

I recall seeing a youtube video of Ronny Osullivan on some podcast. They wanted to watch Ronny do a 147 so they spread all the reds out evenly...but it totally messed Ronny up because his muslce memory wasn't developed for that kind of layout. He even said it would be easier if they left the reds clustered. This is also true for chess...they tested some grand masters who could remember multiple layouts of chess games, and if the board was wiped, the grand masters could replace the pieces easily from memory...but if the pieces were just skewed around the board randomly, and not in some "chess" layout, they could not recall it.

Typing a great example of the power of muscle memory...I can type 80 wpm but if you gave me a pen and paper I could not write out the keyboard layout. It is all mapped via muscle memory. At first it was tedious, and I had to think about where each letter was...but as time went on my fingers just started finding the keys...to the point where now, when I am totally flowing, I am actually reading ahead of what my fingers are typing!

Pool is no different...at first you will need to think about EVERY aspect but in time you should be relying more on muscle memory and less on being deliberate.

I am sharing this because hopefully it will enlighten (and speed up) some of the tedious, methodical, painstakingly slow play out there...even at the professional level.
 
Last edited:

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
...you can never purposefully ever hit the exact english you are trying to.
...I don't think its ever even possible to hit center ball...you are always imparting some sort of english.
...there is no such thing as exactly a half ball hit.
All nonsense.

You might not be able to do these things every time on demand, but they certainly can be done - for that matter you don't need to be "mathematically exact" to get the needed results.

pj
chgo
 

gregcantrall

Center Ball
Silver Member
I recall seeing a youtube video of Ronny Osullivan on some podcast. They wanted to watch Ronny do a 147 so they spread all the reds out evenly...but it totally messed Ronny up because his muslce memory wasn't developed for that kind of layout.
LOL , muslce memory? Lololol. Oh I can't stop giggling. Even before I noticed the misspelled muscle. Still chuckle ing. Thanks 👍
 

couldnthinkof01

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You tell those pros!
After you use this under big pressure come back and regale us with your tales of conquer.
 

tim913

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I’m at the level now to where if I miss it’s because I wasn’t concentrating on the contact point of OB. I never get in a slump like I used to by trying to fix everything all the time. I finally figured it out and the next shot I stay focused on contact point and all is well .. so no, I can’t play automatically
 

couldnthinkof01

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
he really did make good points and is the right way to get good.
It's not going to speed up good players. Guy is nuts. When Mike Tyson said "everyone has a plan untill they get punched in the face", I doubt he said that before he had actually been punched in the face.
When pressure is up it effects everyone. They're thought processes slow or become non existent. It goes from looking at the table for two seconds and seeing the run-out to 4-d chess.
You just have to keep putting yourself in the fire and learn calming techniques and sometimes nothing can be done, it just all goes south.
 

CocoboloCowboy

Cowboys are my hero's
Silver Member
Well if you have open mind Muscle Memory is a real training methoid.

The military use it because they have captive audience, and don’t have to pay overtime.

Do something once it don’t become second nature. Do it 1,000 times it could become second nature.

Friend is commercial pilot, couple of times a year he goes into flight simulator. They throw problems at home that could happen in real world. It’s pass, fail test, keep flying, or be grounded until he can pass.

If you do not train as pilot how to survive in emergencies, you could die, and destroy valuable air craft.

Plus kill off a bunch of innocent passengers your charged with delivering safe and sound
 

WobblyStroke

Well-known member
he really did make good points and is the right way to get good.
Yes he makes some good points, but they get lost amidst the terrible nonsense points. Guy doesn't know what muscle memory is, though most laymen don't so have a chuckle and give him a pass there. Not hitting center ball ever bc it's impossible? Top pros will be favorite to send a ball down table and have it return to their tip where it left 10/10 times.

Also, playing automatically happens when you're already good...at least decent with 1000s of hours of table time. You don't get good that way, but you can play that way once good. You have to build up your mental index cards of situations and experiences for your subconscious to have a database of knowledge to draw from....this needs to be done consciously at first. After seeing a shot 100s or 1000s of times, you just know if it 'looks right'. This is pretty much how I 'aim' now....the shot just looks right or it doesn't and I start over. But it's not like I was flying around the table feeling shots out in my first 100hrs or 1000hrs even. It took conscious focused effort to try to aim shots and note results/corrections for next time before building up enough experience to go on autopilot.

As for speeding up pros....gimme a break. All these guys can and often do play fast in their home rooms. Under the lights, with all that pressure, it may take a little more time to fully commit to a shot. There is more 'making sure' going on. It's not unlike professional poker players accustomed to playing online with 20s time banks before making decisions. They go to a major live event and they can take 5x as long routinely. 10x if it's a pivotal spot. Pressure has a way of getting ppl to really make sure...sometimes all that making sure is why we end up missing. Go figure.
 

maha

from way back when
Silver Member
yes i don't go with that it will speed up slow play. i ignored that part of his story.

he is correct about not being able to hit the exact center or place you want to on the cueball. you never can but his point was your muscle memory gets you to hit the closest to the exact point you can according to your ability.

take his points for what they are. but please understand that it is the repetition of things that creates the muscle memory that enables you to walk up to the shot and put your hand down and fire the ball in without thinking and get position.
 
Yes he makes some good points, but they get lost amidst the terrible nonsense points. Guy doesn't know what muscle memory is, though most laymen don't so have a chuckle and give him a pass there. Not hitting center ball ever bc it's impossible? Top pros will be favorite to send a ball down table and have it return to their tip where it left 10/10 times.

Also, playing automatically happens when you're already good...at least decent with 1000s of hours of table time. You don't get good that way, but you can play that way once good. You have to build up your mental index cards of situations and experiences for your subconscious to have a database of knowledge to draw from....this needs to be done consciously at first. After seeing a shot 100s or 1000s of times, you just know if it 'looks right'. This is pretty much how I 'aim' now....the shot just looks right or it doesn't and I start over. But it's not like I was flying around the table feeling shots out in my first 100hrs or 1000hrs even. It took conscious focused effort to try to aim shots and note results/corrections for next time before building up enough experience to go on autopilot.

As for speeding up pros....gimme a break. All these guys can and often do play fast in their home rooms. Under the lights, with all that pressure, it may take a little more time to fully commit to a shot. There is more 'making sure' going on. It's not unlike professional poker players accustomed to playing online with 20s time banks before making decisions. They go to a major live event and they can take 5x as long routinely. 10x if it's a pivotal spot. Pressure has a way of getting ppl to really make sure...sometimes all that making sure is why we end up missing. Go figure.
Yes, but I also wanted to mention that you reach a point where you are basically just shooting shape...the actual object ball is insignificant, its just a means to an end...the end being the position for the next shot. When I'm walking around the table to the next shot my whole "pre-shot routine" aka muscle memory is feeling the position I want to develop, not the actual shot...whereas most players/pros are focusing on the actual shot, focusing on side spin, weight, and follow through they want to get desired position.
All nonsense. Shoot the shape! It's the equivalent of my typing analogy where you are reading ahead of your fingers. When you are walking around the table, chalking whatever, you should already be feeling the position you want to develop and line up to that...this will do the "aiming" for you.

This is why 8 balls and 9 balls etc can be missed because you are suddenly not playing position on them...so it messes with you because "aiming" basically comes from your positional play. This is why players will play imaginary position to somewhere on the table.
 

couldnthinkof01

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yes, but I also wanted to mention that you reach a point where you are basically just shooting shape...the actual object ball is insignificant, its just a means to an end...the end being the position for the next shot. When I'm walking around the table to the next shot my whole "pre-shot routine" aka muscle memory is feeling the position I want to develop, not the actual shot...whereas most players/pros are focusing on the actual shot, focusing on side spin, weight, and follow through they want to get desired position.
All nonsense. Shoot the shape! It's the equivalent of my typing analogy where you are reading ahead of your fingers. When you are walking around the table, chalking whatever, you should already be feeling the position you want, and line up to that...aligning to the position you want to develop will do the "aiming" for you.

This is why 8 balls and 9 balls etc can be missed because you are suddenly not playing position on them...so it messes with you because "aiming" basically comes from your positional play. This is why players will play imaginary position to somewhere on the table.
Which pros do you know and discuss such topics with?
Have you ever played under a lot of pressure? If so, please elaborate.
Can I grab a random bar playing joe, tell him to just shoot the shape! and he will be firing them in no time?
 

couldnthinkof01

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I will add a little story.
When I'm about to "play a little" I grab my case, strut down the stairs like the big bambino at Yankee stadium. Hi-five the dog, unzip my weapons, take a few warm up swings like I'm in the batters box. Splash some balls out there. Fire em in right handed, fire em in left handed, bank the last 3 cause I got it like that. Maybe a behind the back with a wink to the fans. FF to Bills bar 8ball tournament, I'm one away from the hill and miss the ball before the eight because I played poor position and lose to damn Josh from down the road.
Aiming is relative.
 
Which pros do you know and discuss such topics with?
Have you ever played under a lot of pressure? If so, please elaborate.
Can I grab a random bar playing joe, tell him to just shoot the shape! and he will be firing them in no time?
I will add a little story.
When I'm about to "play a little" I grab my case, strut down the stairs like the big bambino at Yankee stadium. Hi-five the dog, unzip my weapons, take a few warm up swings like I'm in the batters box. Splash some balls out there. Fire em in right handed, fire em in left handed, bank the last 3 cause I got it like that. Maybe a behind the back with a wink to the fans. FF to Bills bar 8ball tournament, I'm one away from the hill and miss the ball before the eight because I played poor position and lose to damn Josh from down the road.
Aiming is relative.

You shouldn't play any differently in a tournament than you do at home. Besides, if you are getting nervous playing in the local tournament, then you are not playing in enough local tournaments...same with regional, national, worlds. Does a roofer get nervous on a roof? He could fall to his death, but he does it every day. Who gives an f about a tournament or gambling lol...its nothing.
 

couldnthinkof01

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You shouldn't play any differently in a tournament than you do at home. Besides, if you are getting nervous playing in the local tournament, then you are not playing in enough local tournaments...same with regional, national, worlds. Does a roofer get nervous on a roof? He could fall to his death, but he does it every day. Who gives an f about a tournament or gambling lol...its nothing.
 
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couldnthinkof01

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I can see by the way they play. Filler, Shaw, Drago, Luc salvas, Ronnie osullivan, Earl strikland all at a high level of muscle memory.

Ralph souquet, Eklent Kaci, Alex Pagulyan, fedor Gorst etc more deliberate.
So it's personal and not for everyone? Or everyone can play like Earl for 50k if they just get out of their own head?
Have you tried this for yourself? Please, please I'm dying to know where you are doing these feats of strength?
 
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