Ball-In-Hand rule question

L

Lanny

Registered
A friend and I got into a disagreement about BIH while playing 9-ball.He hates it and thinks it should be played like 8-ball,where the incoming player gets the cue ball behind the head-string after a scratch.I say that BIH is comparable to free throws in basketball,a penalty for committing a foul,he says the two can't be compared.Any thoughts on my analogy?

While we're on the subject,what do you think the objective/reason was for instating this rule?

Thanks,
Lanny
 
The way we play 8-ball, we get ball in hand unless the scratch is on the break. Then the cue ball is played behind the headstring.

Phyllis Gumphrey
 
Lanny said:
A friend and I got into a disagreement about BIH while playing 9-ball.He hates it and thinks it should be played like 8-ball,where the incoming player gets the cue ball behind the head-string after a scratch.I say that BIH is comparable to free throws in basketball,a penalty for committing a foul,he says the two can't be compared.Any thoughts on my analogy?

While we're on the subject,what do you think the objective/reason was for instating this rule?

Thanks,
Lanny
Click to expand...
Ask him if it's fair when a shooter scratches on purpose because the 8-ball is in the kitchen ( the other player has cleared his balls but missed the 8).
The incoming shooter has kick back to the kitchen to try to make the 8.
8-ball without bih rules is for bar bangers.
 
I play BCA rules 8 and 9, which is ball in hand on all fouls in 9, ball in hand for all fouls except on the break in 8, in which case it's ball in hand in the kitchen.

I think this penalty makes safety play a more important part of the game.

BIH in the kitchen means that you can play some interesting defense moves by intentionally fouling and sending the other guy to the kitchen, but then it most often removes the incentive to play real table safeties.
 
But do you think that I made a valid comparison between free throws and BIH?And what do you think is the reason for the rule's existance?

Lanny
 
"and i already answered the reason for the rule..."

Yeah,but I don't feel that some of the others addressed it very well.

Let's face it,without BIH rules,all a person would have to do would be to simply push the cue ball in behind another ball without contacting another ball or a rail for his defense.Having to contact the object ball complicates playing defense.

Lanny
 
Lanny said:
"and i already answered the reason for the rule..."

Yeah,but I don't feel that some of the others addressed it very well.

Let's face it,without BIH rules,all a person would have to do would be to simply push the cue ball in behind another ball without contacting another ball or a rail for his defense.Having to contact the object ball complicates playing defense.

Lanny
Click to expand...
Or miscue on purpose.
Players who do not know the BCA rule on 8-ball are prolly bar bangers anyway. I used to enter 8-ball bar tourneys. Rule was, two players agreed on the rules b4 they start playing. There was only ONE player in the house who knew BCA rules. The rest played on Mr Bar Rules. I've never met Mr. Bar, but somehow his rules change from alley to alley.
 
Questions on 8 ball.
Whe I played in Spain bar pool, they insisted to have two shots if another player is fouled, cue ball is always behind head string on any given foul and pocketing the 8 ball in the same pocket as the last object ball. Have you heard of anything like these? Which true?
 
You have to play ball in hand in 9 ball beccause you only have one ball to contact on every shot, I have ran into a few good players that played from behind the line after a scratch in 9 ball, and i told them how stupid that was. 8 ball u play off the scratch behind the line i believe to make it harder to run out, cause most of the time there will be a big cluster on the other side of the table.
As far as comparing it to free throws in basketball, it's a good analogy. When guys ***** at me for playing defense i tell them, so when u watch basketball you don't want the defensive team to gaurd the offensive team? Every sport/game has defense/offense some games it's just not as obvious as others. Theres a lot of "old schoolers" out there who think that the game shouldn't be played with ball in hand, most of these guys cannot shoot a lick of pool, but theres still some guys who can play who like the old school ways. Why on earth would you want to play a game where you're opponent can be rewarded by intentionally fouling? Basic common sense here, everyone has a right to there own opinion, it doesn't matter if they are right/wrong.
________
 
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a long time ago, fast food was invented. not because it was good food, but because resturants that served fast food could make more money. same reason why ball in hand was invented. so hustlers, could make more money faster. why do you think local tournaments are single elimination race to 7? they feel (pool hall owners) let's get these scumbags out!
 
Response to Lanny

Lanny,
Your question as stated in your post concerning ball in hand:
"And what do you think is the reason for the rule's existance?"
It was our group who authored, trademarked, copyright and invented ball in hand one foul 9 ball rules .. better known as the Official Texas Express 9 Ball Rules. All other organizations borrowed the rules or portions thereof for their use, i.e., BCA, WPBA, WPA, etc.
The rules were changed in order to speed the game of 9 ball up so as to be able to complete a particular ( 2 day ) Texas State Open in the late 70's
( Nation's longest running 9 Ball yearly Open ) because there were far too many players participating for the number of tables available for tournament use ( only 8 ) at Moyer's Pool Room in Austin, Texas.
It was after that when the rules caught on and became the most commonly used for casual, match ups and tournament play.
John McChesney, CEO
Texas Express Promotions Group
Texas Express
Texas Express 9 Ball Rules
www.texasexpress.com
 
Steve Mizerak - 1982 - Pocket Billiards Tips and Trick Shots.

Pg 85 - The rule was designed (cue ball in hand) to accommodate TV viewers, to speed up the game, and to make it more interesting. With all the safeties that players are likely to use, the game could drag on a long time. The new rule accelerates play and somehow makes it more understandable.

Bob Jewett mentions cue ball in hand, in a BCA rule change of 1980. BD Feb 02 pg 23

The way I see it, it was instituted to make more money. Especially on the bar boxes. The game goes faster and more coins go in the slot. TV producers like a faster paced game and to the average viewer watching balls being made is better than watching safeties.

Jake
 
John,

Thanks for the post. Now I finally know where and and almost when BIH started. Before your post the closest I came was what I wrote in my post above.

You would be surprised at how many retired people here in Florida who have taken up the game after not playing since their teens have never heard of BIH.

How come Texas Express Publications has never published a rule book?
Or do they and I just don't know about it? Other than your website.

Jake
 
response to Jake

Jake,
We have never published a rule book because the Texas Express Rules were designed from the results of observations from all of the tournaments on the former Southwest Tour .. which evolved into the McDermott Tour .. which evolved into the National Nine Ball Tour .. about 16 years of play. We made so many changes it would have required a new rule book 3 times yearly. In fact, our website is going to publish corrections and revisions soon .. as we have found numerous errors and duplications, etc.
The rules went from 1 page of simple rules back in the 1970's to 21 pages currently. I notice that our rules are downloaded and printed hundreds of times per year from the website. I will give some thought to having them published.
Thanks,
John @ T.E.
 
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