BCM CUE REVIEW - Cuemakers Comments Welcome

td873

C is for Cookie
Silver Member
CUE REVIEW - Cuemakers Comments Welcome

**NOTE**
THE IMPERFECTIONS I MENTION DO NOT AFFECT PLAYABILITY, rather only the aesthetics of the cue. Take what you will from this post, and leave information you feel is relevant.

Keep in mind that this is a microscopic review of a process that may take many months to complete.
The end result is MORE than what is presented here. As a buyer, you must decide what is important in your cue buying experience. The opinions presented here are my own, but hopefully, with the input of other cue makers, this post will shed some light on purchasing custom cues!

As a side note, the cue maker offered to correct all of the defects at no charge - a sign of a true professional!


I am impressed with the cue overall. I feel like I have gotten a very good value for my money. The colors are awesome, and the build feels very solid. This post is intended to show that there are areas where custom cues can have imperfections, and some places too look. BUT REMEMBER! Custom is just that, and imperfections will ALWAYS be present because of the human element! Besides, early work of custom cue makers can be very collectible because of the imperfections.

Cue makers spend their entire lives perfecting their trade, and many, many hours making YOUR cue! The beauty of owning cues is that they are all different!

I purchased this cue for around 40% of retail on Ebay directly from the original cue maker. After an evaluation that many think is extreme, I took around 200 pictures and posted the relevant ones here.

First things first:
Look at the workmanship in this photo (from the cuemakers website). This picture shows the cue as you would normally see it (not under a "microscope"):
cuepic.jpg

Nice eh!

Pic 1 - Cue makers use different methods to create veneers, but in any event, when made properly, the difference is only noticeable up close. This picture shows that "layered veneers" are used in this cue. Notice how the angle formed by the point/veneer is not bisected - rather it "runs" up one side. As shown here, when properly constructed, the "veneer line" is almost imperceptible.
example1.jpg


Here is an example of a different method of construction. Notice how the lines run "straight" up from point to point, not touching the "side" of the veneer. Again, the "line" is almost invisible. Too much of a "gap" would cause a visible dark line.
Both types shown here result in a barely noticeable line.

contrast2.jpg

{http://www.azbilliards.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?s=&postid=2105#post2105}

On to the review:
Two particular areas that I noticed are imperfect layered points/veneers (part 2 below) and a noticeable blemish on the forearm.

Pics 2-4 show the small blemish (I'm not sure what it is, but it is somewhat dark. It measures 2mm X 4mm - for your own reference, get a ruler and draw a 2mm X 4mm spot on a piece of paper, and place it about 5 feet away). Also in these pictures, you can see the straightness, and beautiful contrast of the veneers with the Birdseye and Cocobola. Excellent wood choices.
Pic 2:
blem1.jpg


Pic 3:
blem2.jpg


Pic 4:
blem3.jpg


[MORE BELOW]
 
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[Part 2 - CONTINUED FROM ABOVE]

This cue has 3 high and 3 low points.

Here are pictures of the high points/veneers. Notice in particular how the red veneer has a "darker" line that "runs" up. By contrast, look at the perfectly constructed "white" veneer, with almost no noticeable line:

Pic 5:
lp.jpg


Pic 6:
lp2.jpg


Pic 7:
lp3.jpg


Pic 8:
lp4.jpg
 
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[Part 3 - CONTINUED FROM ABOVE]

Here are pics of the low points/veneers. In pics 9 and 10, you can see a gap in the "white" veneer in one of the points. Compare that to picture 11 showing a short point with a perfect veneer.

Pic 9:
sp1.jpg


Pic 10:
sp2.jpg


Pic 11:
sp3.jpg
 
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[Part 4 - CONTINUED FROM ABOVE]

Nit Picky things: Here are a couple things that are not critical, but I thought I would point them out nonetheless. The rings work on one of the shafts looks a bit jagged. The rest of the ring work is perfect. Keep in mind that there are rings on both shafts, the joint collar, and the butt plate!

Pic 12:
ring1.jpg


Pic 13:
ring2.jpg


Here are two pictures of one of the shafts. You can see the tight grain, and another feature that is not unusual in shafts - a sugar spot. The location of this is about 1/2 way up the shaft, and may be in my line of sight when stroking. I prefer shafts without sugar spots, but in this case I have a quick fix: rotate the shaft :)

Pic 14:
sugar1.jpg


Pic 15:
sugar2.jpg
 
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[Part 5 - CONTINUED FROM ABOVE]

Another Nit Pick - a piece of debris attached to one of the Cocobola points and was finished in place. Unfortunately, the debris is very light colored and contrasts sharply with the Cocobola. Normally, something of this nature would not be as noticeable as it is here...
Pic 16:
spec1.jpg


Pic 17:
spec3.jpg
 
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These are just some of the aspects of custom cues.

I will try to post more cue reviews as I can - including ones on refinished, altered, and repaired cues! I hope that these post are informative for cue buyers out there!
 
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I guess I'm not understanding your point. Do you own other cues other than the Richard Black? There are multitudes of very highly respectable cuemakers that do not mitre their veneers. It's a personal preference.

And the "blemish" isn't really that big a deal. It looks like sugar or mineral that showed up after turning. It'd be a shame to just toss the cue away.

Sugar on shafts? Christ, if I had to throw away every shaft that had a defect, I'd have no shafts for any of my sticks.

Brian isn't Richard Black. I don't think he'd be insulted if I said that. Does the stick play well? Do you think you got a good deal (I can't imagine you not getting a good deal)? Does it look good other than putting it under microscope? Where are the rest of the positives?

Fred
 
The point of the review is information!

And yes, I do currently own many other cues, from Richard Black (pics on this forum), to Tim Scruggs, to Dale Perry (pics on this forum) and Bob Frey (pics on this forum), and have owned/traded numberous others. Additonally, I have a number of local/up-and-coming cue maker's works. I collect cues, and thought it would be nice for others to have a reference point. I'm no expert, and want the REAL experts to speak up.


n.b.: I removed the reference to the cue maker, and ask you to do the same. I am not trying to create a "slam" thread.

Thanks!
 
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it sounds like your kinda pissed but really dont want to "slam" this cuemaker. i dont understand why you would bring out all of the negatives of a cuemaker and then say that an easy fix is to rotate the shaft for a sugar spot. even if your not slamming this cuemaker you could have a dramatic affect on his sales. so either your slamming him or your not. that or your an anal retentive cue collector. hope you dont ever actually decide to "slam" a cuemaker.
 
td873 said:
The point of the review is information!

And yes, I do currently own many other cues, from Richard Black (pics on this forum), to Tim Scruggs, to Dale Perry (pics on this forum) and Bob Frey (pics on this forum), and have owned/traded numberous others. Additonally, I have a number of local/up-and-coming cue maker's works. I collect cues, and thought it would be nice for others to have a reference point. I'm no expert, and want the REAL experts to speak up.


n.b.: I removed the reference to the cue maker, and ask you to do the same. I am not trying to create a "slam" thread.

Thanks!

Too late, I'd say. At this point, I think Brian needs to have his voice heard if he wants. I only know Brian Mordt through the internet and through other work of his I've seen in my hands. He does good work, and as far as I know, would address any problems a customer might have. I don't recall anyone ever telling me he had bad customer relations.

Regards,

Fred Agnir
 
Admittedly, the problems above can be remedied easily by the maker at any time. However, as mentioned by a poster in another forum, they could have also been remedied before shipping to prevent the likelihood of any dissatisfaction, no matter how slight. If the eBay auction and discounted price were reflections of the above imperfections, perhaps they should have been presented in the original advertisement, as eBay'ers have no opportunity to inspect purchases beforehand.

I am presenting the cue here just as I received it - as neutrally as I can - with both the positives and negatives in place.
 
The cue hits very firm. There is nice feedback though. I would venture to say that the radial pin provides improved "contact" and, thus, the excellent feedback.
 
td873 said:
The cue hits very firm. There is nice feedback though.
So the cue hits too firmly for your taste? I just want to be sure I understand.

How many hours have you played with the cue? When I first switched from a cue with a cushy hit to one with a hard hit, it took me a while to get used to it. Now I prefer the hard hit.
 
td873 said:
Admittedly, the problems above can be remedied easily by the maker at any time. However, as mentioned by a poster in another forum, they could have also been remedied before shipping to prevent the likelihood of any dissatisfaction, no matter how slight. If the eBay auction and discounted price were reflections of the above imperfections, perhaps they should have been presented in the original advertisement, as eBay'ers have no opportunity to inspect purchases beforehand.

I am presenting the cue here just as I received it - as neutrally as I can - with both the positives and negatives in place.
I don't understand the coyness of your post. You didn't present the cue neutrally. You've said things that are detrimental to a cuemaker's business. And frankly, you come off being a complete novice at cue collecting, yet you're trying to come off as being some sort of learned expert.

Maybe you should have asked opinions first about it rather than "teaching novices," since it certainly seems you are included as a novice.

Many of what you are calling "problems" and "imperfections" don't seem to anyone who's responding to your posts as either. Yet, you continue to label them as such. Especially since you haven't contacted the cuemaker to begin with (by implication).

I'll give my opinion. It seems that no matter what you said, you were being passive aggressive and think you got hosed.

Fred <~~~ still doesn't understand the meaning of the original point
 
I've played with my my Black for around 4 months and the feel of this cue is definitely stiffer. It is also stiffer than my Scruggs, and only slightly stiffer than either of my Dale Perrys. I have played with this cue for about 10 hours in 3 sessions.

Fred, whether you agree or not, the magnitude of the "imperfections" is irrelevant, their existence is the subject matter of the post. You have succeeding in attacking the original post, but you have not taken the time to contribute any valuable information.

Please review the photos again, and if you are able, contribute to this thread by explaining your position on how the cue is affected by them - in terms of value, collectability, etc - you don't have to be an expert to have an opinion. If you think the cue is unaffected, then say so! Your opinion counts.

Thanks!
 
td873 said:
I've played with my my Black for around 4 months and the feel of this cue is definitely stiffer. It is also stiffer than my Scruggs, and only slightly stiffer than either of my Dale Perrys. I have played with this cue for about 10 hours in 3 sessions.

Fred, whether you agree or not, the magnitude of the "imperfections" is irrelevant, their existence is the subject matter of the post. You have succeeding in attacking the original post, but you have not taken the time to contribute any valuable information.

Please review the photos again, and if you are able, contribute to this thread by explaining your position on how the cue is affected by them - in terms of value, collectability, etc - you don't have to be an expert to have an opinion. If you think the cue is unaffected, then say so! Your opinion counts.

Thanks!
Is the Black cue stiffer or it's shaft is stiffer?
I know of a local collector who owns a great number of Blacks.
I have yet to try one of his that really impresses me.
I am impressed by most Scruggs I try.
I have no idea how a Perry can be stiff. It's butt is so skinny and appears to be a straight taper.
 
Fred, whether you agree or not, the magnitude of the "imperfections" is irrelevant, their existence is the subject matter of the post. You have succeeding in attacking the original post, but you have not taken the time to contribute any valuable information.
What? Are you kidding me? I see you've edited your original post. Are you saying my input wasn't valuable enough for you to edit your post?

Your original post was a passive aggressive slam with pretentions of being an expert. My post hopefully sheds light on your lack of expertise to those "novices" that you were attempting "help." If you were actuallly looking for information (which you should have been), I could have helped you out much better. I am actually surprised the lack of rebuttals on this board, but I assume you didn't post its existence on the regular Main Forum. So the regular members didn't set you straight.

This post contributes valuable information as well.

Fred
 
explaination of different veneer methods...

td873 said:
[Part 3 - CONTINUED FROM ABOVE]

Here are pics of the low points/veneers. In pics 9 and 10, you can see a gap in the "white" veneer in one of the points. Compare that to picture 11 showing a short point with a perfect veneer.

Pic 9:
sp1.jpg


Pic 10:
sp2.jpg


Pic 11:
sp3.jpg

Here is what's going on... it looks like the cuemaker utilizes the overlaped veneer method, not the folded veneer method as is shown in the black cue, the overlaped method is when you take a square of the point wood, and overlap the veneers on top of each other, with the first veneer glued down the the point wood square, then trimed even with the square, then the same is done all the way around with the same color of veneer, and then the same is done with the other veneers and so forth, and when you have finished doing that, you "quarter saw" the turning square and have four points (if the cue you are "reviewing" has 6 points, then he made two of the squares mentioned above and had two points left over). The folded veneer method is when you glue the veneers together in the order you want them to appear, then you cut the edges at a 45 degree angle with either a router (with special bit) or a saw (with a really expensive blade), then fold them together and glue them together at the seem, then glue in your point wood, and you are good to go...

I hope that clears some things up, comparing one persons methods to anothers isn't really the way to go, as i've seen overlaped veneers that would make the cue you are reviewing look flawless, and from looking at the pictures, you will understand why alot of cuebuilders don't use the overlaped method, or even the folded method, and end up with inlaid points, it's alot of work to keep the points even, and the veneers flawless.

Thanks

Jon
 
Most pool players are looking for a cue that plays well for themselves. Appearance is normally not a big issue, especially if the cue was bought at a bargain. If you bought it on ebay at 40-60 percent off, then what are you whining about.
 
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