be honest, who really uses center ball ?

[BRKNRUN]

the way I see it,, beginners start with centerball because they don't understand the effects of hitting anywhere else. and at first are afraid to try..

then they get a little better and begin experimenting with english and slowly build up a knowledge base of where the balls will go if hit with english.

as they get better they push their personal comfort zone reaching farther and farther out on the cueball.

Intermediate players have reached the point of truely being able to "juice" the ball to extremes..

and then a funny thing happens.. those destined to become expert begin to work back towards center.. why?? more predictable results..

experts seem to start with center ball and try to find a way to get where they need to go with a center ball shot..

the biggest difference between the beginner and the expert.. is the expert went through his "juicing phase" and has the knowledge and ability to use those shots. when needed,

but more importantly he knows when english is not needed and in some cases complicates the shot more than necessary.

center ball (vertical axis) is the easiest road to take and provides the most predictable results.. the only time we should deviate from that is when it is absolutely necessary..

though I am as guilty of showing off as anyone else:smile:

thats my take on it..

Are you really Roger Griffis in cogneto???

Years ago (before he left Phoenix) I asked Roger what he did that made him so good... (If you have seen Roger play you will know he can juice the ball at will when he wants to)

He said he went a year just juicing the ball all over the table and deveolped a stroke and the abiltiy to pocket balls (with juice)

He said when he got to his top level (World Beater) status is when he then went back to using center verticle axis as much as possible...

He said (to be a world beater) you have to develop the ability to juice it when you need it and then use it as little as possible.

 

[av84fun]

Freeze two object balls together and shoot dead straight into them with maximum draw. Be sure all three balls (CB and two OBs) stay on the same line after contact to ensure a dead straight hit. See how far you can get the "trapped" OB (the one you hit) to roll forward - probably several inches at most. That's not enough forward spin to make any real difference in 99.99 percent of shots.

pj
chgo

That is a bogus test because the friction between forward and rearward ball can and probably does cancel or reduce the amout of transferred spin.

The only valid way to measure spin transfer is to measure the rotation of the OB over a given distance and compare that to the rotation of a ball moving with normal roll.

In fact, that has been done and it proves the existance of spin transfer.

You are correct that the transfer makes no difference on most shots but that is no reason to ignore its existance and there are shots where it can make all the difference so there is no point in ignoring that.

Regards,
Jim

 

[Patrick Johnson]

That is a bogus test because the friction between forward and rearward ball can and probably does cancel or reduce the amout of transferred spin.

In cases where we know there's a small amount of forward rotation, like when a ball is rolling slowly and runs into another ball, it rolls through because of the forward rotation that remains on it after collision. Ball/ball friction doesn't eliminate all forward spin in those situations, so the conclusion must be that there's even less forward spin transferred by the CB (a very small amount).

You are correct that the transfer makes no difference on most shots but that is no reason to ignore its existance

Sure. That's why I don't suggest ignoring its existence - except on the 99.99 percent of shots where it makes no difference.

pj
chgo

 

[lewdo26]

When I'm making sure to have natural angles, when I'm thinking tangent lines, when I'm overcutting my center ball cuts, and when I have a good sense of my cuetip and center ball, I'm playing most consistently.

When I'm not, I start spinning balls in. Mostly because I can't see the shot and I'm getting into a lot of positional trouble anyway and need to spin the heck out of whitey. :angry:

The better I play the less spin I'm using. When I use it: half a tip, medium speed. That's it.