be honest

JoeyA said:
There is no question that if the WPBA tightened up the pockets there would be less run outs. I doubt if they would want to show professionals not being able to run out regularly.

Another important consideration and I am sure the designers of the Women's Tour looked at this- Which is more exciting to watch?
1. To see a poorly hit shot, on very wide pockets, knowing that the shot will have a chance of wobbling its way into the hole.
2. To see a poorly hit shot, on very tight pockets, knowing that it never will have a chance of falling into the hole.

Which do you think is the best business decision?
JoeyA
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No question, the answer is a tough one.

Right now we only speculate as I will in my following statement;

Pro golfers hit the ball into the woods, miss easy putts, .. If every golfer scored a birdie on every hole and shot perfect golf always, then would golf be popular or discouraging to the average player knowing he will always make mistakes. Fortunately golf pros do make mistakes and this shows that they are human which allows the average Joe to think he has a chance (which he does).

Average golfer plays normally on much easier courses than the pros do. This is known. So why not pool? Top pros will run racks no matter how tough the equipment is, what changes is the next tier down of talent playing in tour events. Is it fair to be so good and have equipment so easy that lesser players can beat the top guns? Yes it is easy for both but it also allows more to compete and win. Imagine playing a pro and pockets are 10" wide. Yes this is extreme, but just to prove a point that there now exists more opportunity to win now with a higher degree of luck.
 
I dont see the comparison of pool to golf.Just about anyone can afford to shoot pool and most cant afford golf as a everyday game.Golf takes strength,figuring out different clubs.figuring out drives, putts.The only comparison is a ball goes into a hole.You really cant compare the sports to each other.
I would rather see a ball roll into a pocket because of table speed then miss because the pockets have been shimmed too much.
 
as easy as it is to run a rack on those tables, I still don't see any of the ladies stringing together more than 2 racks in a row. I also think they make the tables easier, so that they make balls on the break. For whatever reason nine ball seems more exciting if balls are falling on the break.
 
pete lafond said:
No question, the answer is a tough one.

Right now we only speculate as I will in my following statement;

Pro golfers hit the ball into the woods, miss easy putts, .. If every golfer scored a birdie on every hole and shot perfect golf always, then would golf be popular or discouraging to the average player knowing he will always make mistakes. Fortunately golf pros do make mistakes and this shows that they are human which allows the average Joe to think he has a chance (which he does).

Average golfer plays normally on much easier courses than the pros do. This is known. So why not pool? Top pros will run racks no matter how tough the equipment is, what changes is the next tier down of talent playing in tour events. Is it fair to be so good and have equipment so easy that lesser players can beat the top guns? Yes it is easy for both but it also allows more to compete and win. Imagine playing a pro and pockets are 10" wide. Yes this is extreme, but just to prove a point that there now exists more opportunity to win now with a higher degree of luck.
Click to expand...

You are totally on the right track here. Pro pool should be played on the toughest equipment possible. It doesn't denigrate the talents of the participants, it highlights them, because runs out on tough equipment are even more impressive. It doesn't ruin the excitement, it adds to it, because knowing that any shot can be missed adds to the drama for the audience. When the PGA tour visits a course, you can be sure that they play from the most difficult tees and to the most difficult pin positions, yet pro pool players play televised matches on equipment that is absurdly easy. That's why the most boring pool you can ever watch is that shown on television. It's a tragedy.
 
JoeyA said:
There is no question that if the WPBA tightened up the pockets there would be less run outs. I doubt if they would want to show professionals not being able to run out regularly.

Another important consideration and I am sure the designers of the Women's Tour looked at this- Which is more exciting to watch?
1. To see a poorly hit shot, on very wide pockets, knowing that the shot will have a chance of wobbling its way into the hole.
2. To see a poorly hit shot, on very tight pockets, knowing that it never will have a chance of falling into the hole.

Which do you think is the best business decision?
JoeyA
Click to expand...
A poorly hit shot should not go in. Else there's no point in playing the match. Just take the rails off the table so everyone will run out. Allison would be able to run out consistently if they were correctly made 4 inch pockets, if the cloth plays well.

unknownpro
 
efirkey said:
as easy as it is to run a rack on those tables, I still don't see any of the ladies stringing together more than 2 racks in a row. I also think they make the tables easier, so that they make balls on the break. For whatever reason nine ball seems more exciting if balls are falling on the break.
Click to expand...
They play alternating break, which prevents them from stringing racks. A terrible way to play nine-ball, imho.
 
Golf and pool are alike in many ways but to compare the two in the way some people do in this forum is wrong. Pro golfers do play much more difficult courses than is available to the general public. Anyone can purchase a table with as difficult of conditions as they want. While pro golfers play more difficult courses they get to play courses that are maintained well beyond which the average golfer has access to. This makes a huge difference if you actually play the ball down, which most people do not. The USGA also does unnecessary things like hose dragging the fairways and tees to get the water drops off the grass. They also water and tamp the bunkers to keep the ball from settling down in the sand. How many of you can say you have played golf under these conditions. I grew up playing pool and have played most of my pool on a 5 by 10 table with pockets no bigger than 4.5 inches. I will measure next time I play a few games at my father's house. That in my opinion is the only way the game should be played.
 
bobroberts said:
I dont see the comparison of pool to golf.Just about anyone can afford to shoot pool and most cant afford golf as a everyday game.Golf takes strength,figuring out different clubs.figuring out drives, putts.The only comparison is a ball goes into a hole.You really cant compare the sports to each other.
I would rather see a ball roll into a pocket because of table speed then miss because the pockets have been shimmed too much.
Click to expand...
Balls don't miss because the pockets are shimmed too much, they miss because they are hit at the wrong angle. Table speed or pocket speed is crap made up to explain why the pocket plays badly. With wide pockets sometimes a shot missed a long way goes in and the same shot hitting the point hangs up because the pocket facings are angled to much. Tight pockets with near parallel facings play much truer, which is why Allison and the rest would have little problem with them.

unknownpro
 
AceHigh said:
I know the subject of pocket size has been brought up numerous times, and this question relates to said subject.

We all know that the women play on easy equipment, and break and runs are very common in the women's TV matches.

Would they be so frequent if they played on the same type of equipment that the men played on at the WPC?

I only ask because I'm watching the rerun of Vivian Vs. Kelly F. and Vivian has hit three shots so bad, but they still found their way into the pocket.
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I saw Kelly Fisher run a few 5 packs on a brunswick gold crown four with double shimmed pockets. She also ran a 77 in straight pool the first time ever playing the game. She had no clue of patterns. The table plays real tough and doesn't give for anyting. Believe me , I was playing her.
 
jacob said:
Golf and pool are alike in many ways but to compare the two in the way some people do in this forum is wrong. Pro golfers do play much more difficult courses than is available to the general public. Anyone can purchase a table with as difficult of conditions as they want. While pro golfers play more difficult courses they get to play courses that are maintained well beyond which the average golfer has access to. This makes a huge difference if you actually play the ball down, which most people do not. The USGA also does unnecessary things like hose dragging the fairways and tees to get the water drops off the grass. They also water and tamp the bunkers to keep the ball from settling down in the sand. How many of you can say you have played golf under these conditions. I grew up playing pool and have played most of my pool on a 5 by 10 table with pockets no bigger than 4.5 inches. I will measure next time I play a few games at my father's house. That in my opinion is the only way the game should be played.
Click to expand...

Yes, pool is pool and golf is golf, they are not the same. The comparison is used as another individual sport that has gained much success.
 
onepocketchump said:
All I know is......when the pressure is on - the pockets get smaller NO matter what size they are.

Allison, Karen, Kelly Fisher, and others play on tighter equipment than the BCA specs and run out plenty of time.

Does anyone want to bet against them playing the nineball ghost on 4.5inch pockets?

I'll bet anyone on this board $1000 that Kelly Fisher will beat the 9-ball ghost in a ten ahead set - break, ball in hand, all day every day.

John
Click to expand...
What's your point? That is not a challenge to a top male player at all.

unknownpro
 
The ladies who are on tv the most are also the ones who have snooker championships, with the exception of Jeanette and (lately) Helena. They can play great pool at times so they shouldn't be scared of tight pockets, especially with their background. Besides, most matches seem to be short races and a couple of fluke shots can decide the whole outcome of the match.

I'd rather see more safety play and honest shotmaking than watch balls skim a rail three diamonds up and still plop in. A lot of serious players find it hard to watch nine ball on bucket pockets, short races, alternate break, Sardo rack dead balls on the break,etc... if TV execs think the public doesn't like missed shots, they can just edit out with the rest of the unshown shots from the match.

Maybe they'll let them move frozen balls off the rail a cue butts width next, like the kids do. Don't get me wrong, I don't blame the ladies for making the best of the situation. Their tour is kicking butt but at some point the integrity of the game is getting a little too low for comfort.

Big pockets better for TV? Maybe, but probably for the same people who clap when the ladies make a ball and hook themselves. The ladies can play quality pool and will probably only get better if they are forced to hit cleaner shots.
 
bud green said:
The ladies who are on tv the most are also the ones who have snooker championships, with the exception of Jeanette and (lately) Helena. They can play great pool at times so they shouldn't be scared of tight pockets, especially with their background. Besides, most matches seem to be short races and a couple of fluke shots can decide the whole outcome of the match.

I'd rather see more safety play and honest shotmaking than watch balls skim a rail three diamonds up and still plop in. A lot of serious players find it hard to watch nine ball on bucket pockets, short races, alternate break, Sardo rack dead balls on the break,etc... if TV execs think the public doesn't like missed shots, they can just edit out with the rest of the unshown shots from the match.

Maybe they'll let them move frozen balls off the rail a cue butts width next, like the kids do. Don't get me wrong, I don't blame the ladies for making the best of the situation. Their tour is kicking butt but at some point the integrity of the game is getting a little too low for comfort.

Big pockets better for TV? Maybe, but probably for the same people who clap when the ladies make a ball and hook themselves. The ladies can play quality pool and will probably only get better if they are forced to hit cleaner shots.
Click to expand...

You make a lot of sense. My mother who is 86 and never played pool enjoys watching it on TV as often as she can. She has made the comment about some balls that really should not drop in the pocket when they hit the rail 6" before the pocket. It looks foolish, those should be missed shots. It cheapens the game.
 
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