Larry, after Richies' stroke he often came by Hardtimes to chat and watch. During this time Efren was frequently there either playing pool or chess. I heard Richie more than once say "Efren is the best all round player I have seen!" Now I know that Richie and Ronnie Allen matched up many times. Richie was in the So. Bay area and Ronnie in the San Fernando Valley. You have a wealth of knowledge (I assume) but one would think that with all of your experience and self proclaimed knowledge that you would not be so thin skinned. Before I started reading this board I had never heard of you before and this is not to say that what you write is untrue. However, with your self proclaimed mastery of Zen I would think that you would have better control of yourself and more patience with those who might disagree with you. Check with your pharmacist about your meds. Obviously there is no problem with your fingers in light of the number and length of your posts. Keep on posting but find a different outlet for your anger--please.
best player ever?
- Thread starter jimmyquinella
- Start date
Hi There
Hello. This would be my first time to post a message here or in any other fora. Until now, I've just been content with reading and learning from (and sometimes laughing at) the varied messages posted herein.
A number of times I almost wanted to post a message in reply to something I read but I decided to read on further until the last post in this thread. Apparently, there are a lot of really well-informed and great pool players in this forum (I could barely shot straight) and I thought it was not in my position to argue with what was being said or discussed. I also am relatively quite young vis-à-vis some of the older and supposedly wiser posters here.
But, I feel I do have something to say. It seems obvious that when it comes to matters of opinion, differences would naturally come up. Not everyone shares the same history, nationality, background, educational attainment, rationality or upbringing. The best would really be to respect each other’s opinion. Sure, it’s okay to debate – that’s what makes this forum so entertaining – but please, let’s be mature (I know, it’s not really fun to be mature), avoid argumentum ad hominems, or take things personally. That said, on with the less preachy stuff. (One note: this is not meant to diss anyone. Fast Larry, I mean no disrespect. Since most of the posts were by you or against you or something you wrote, your name had the most impact on me)
Fast Larry would naturally have a lot of opinion on a lot of stuff posted here. Arguably, he’s the most knowledgeable poster I’ve read so far in terms of firsthand knowledge of history of the game and actual hands-on experience (from what I gather from his posts about his friendships with the greats) and he does not mind sharing his experiences and observations, as well as his biases. Being American, naturally he would root for the most “American” player of them all, Earl the Pearl. Which is understandable. The Filipinos would naturally root for Efren or Django, the Germans for Ralph or Thorsten, the British for Steve or Jimmy. Even if he were trying to be objective, his no. 1 player (and a lot of the players in his top ten) would have to be American. How can they not be?
Let’s face it: America is the King of All Media. They might not have invented the game, but who puts it on TV and the Big Screen? Who puts out a Hall of Fame (of which, incidentally, Efren is a part and Earl is not)?
In one of his posts to argue against Efren being on his list, Fast Larry asked how many tournaments has Efren won. When someone posted a list of Efren’s accomplishments, Fast Larry then argued that the number of tournaments won is not the only consideration. Well, what is it, Larry?
Incidentally, I also feel that number of tournaments won should not be the only measure. But at least, let’s be consistent. If we’re going to have a measure of greatness, we should all agree on a standard. But what? On number of tournaments won? On number of consecutive balls pocketed? On most money won?
Americans would immediately win in any of these categories. Since they have records of tournaments that go way back, they could argue that so-and-so won this many world titles and beat this many opponents and won this much money and pocketed this many consecutive balls.
But we can argue that Efren never competed in these tournaments. Who knows what the outcome would have been had he been there. Or any of the other great world-class players playing today for that matter.
The Efren Reyes most people know is the Efren Reyes they got to know only when he surfaced in America as Cesar Morales in 1985. Some only got to know him when he won the 1999 World Championships in Cardiff. Even a great pool aficionado and historian like Fast Larry could not know the Efren Reyes before that time, unless he talked to a lot of Filipino old-timers and players.
I saw this link in one of the other forums (or was it this one?). It was a German website (I think -- I couldn’t understand a word) and it had scans from an old Philippine magazine which featured a competition in which Efren was finally acknowledged the King of Philippine Billiards. This was in the mid-80’s, before Efren got international exposure. The writer had an interesting observation. He said that Efren was good, but until he got to compete internationally, they would never really know how good he was. When Efren finally got on the international stage in 1985, he saw how the top international pool players played. And it was then that the realization occurred to him: he was world champion all along! He just saw how they played and he knew he could beat any of them any time. And beat them he did. And up till now, he’s still winning.
Another poster in that forum who read the magazine scans noted that Efren felt that his best years were behind him and that he was at his prime during the 70’s! And yet, he’s still here now, still winning, not everything, but still making the big money (look at the AZ Players Money List 2000 to 2004 and see who’s been no. 1 most of the time).
Which begs us to think, what if Efren had been released to the world much earlier, in the 70s when he was at his prime? Imagine the number of World Titles he might have won! The money he might have earned! The number of balls he might have pocketed! The number of players he might have beaten!
I understand this is a lot of might have beens. But lets look at other criteria shall we? Fast Larry also mentioned winning important games, high stakes games. Well, let’s consider the games in Color of Money I and II. Efren vs. Earl. Both times race to 120 games. Both times won by Efren. Not bad for someone uneducated in sports psychology, physiology, zen, mental states, or whatever. Not bad for someone from a third world country used to playing with cheap cue sticks and lousy tables. Not bad for someone who’s humble enough to not think of himself as the greatest (he feels some of the ladies from the women’s leagues can beat him).
It doesn’t matter whether Efren is on Larry’s list. Everyone’s entitled to their own opinion. What matters is Efren’s on top of a lot of people’s lists, a lot of players he’s played against lists (even Earl’s and Archer’s and Jeanette Lee’s), players he hasn’t played against (Steve Mizerak ranks him on his top ten) and on the BCA Hall of Fame list. Nuff said.
Hello. This would be my first time to post a message here or in any other fora. Until now, I've just been content with reading and learning from (and sometimes laughing at) the varied messages posted herein.
A number of times I almost wanted to post a message in reply to something I read but I decided to read on further until the last post in this thread. Apparently, there are a lot of really well-informed and great pool players in this forum (I could barely shot straight) and I thought it was not in my position to argue with what was being said or discussed. I also am relatively quite young vis-à-vis some of the older and supposedly wiser posters here.
But, I feel I do have something to say. It seems obvious that when it comes to matters of opinion, differences would naturally come up. Not everyone shares the same history, nationality, background, educational attainment, rationality or upbringing. The best would really be to respect each other’s opinion. Sure, it’s okay to debate – that’s what makes this forum so entertaining – but please, let’s be mature (I know, it’s not really fun to be mature), avoid argumentum ad hominems, or take things personally. That said, on with the less preachy stuff. (One note: this is not meant to diss anyone. Fast Larry, I mean no disrespect. Since most of the posts were by you or against you or something you wrote, your name had the most impact on me)
Fast Larry would naturally have a lot of opinion on a lot of stuff posted here. Arguably, he’s the most knowledgeable poster I’ve read so far in terms of firsthand knowledge of history of the game and actual hands-on experience (from what I gather from his posts about his friendships with the greats) and he does not mind sharing his experiences and observations, as well as his biases. Being American, naturally he would root for the most “American” player of them all, Earl the Pearl. Which is understandable. The Filipinos would naturally root for Efren or Django, the Germans for Ralph or Thorsten, the British for Steve or Jimmy. Even if he were trying to be objective, his no. 1 player (and a lot of the players in his top ten) would have to be American. How can they not be?
Let’s face it: America is the King of All Media. They might not have invented the game, but who puts it on TV and the Big Screen? Who puts out a Hall of Fame (of which, incidentally, Efren is a part and Earl is not)?
In one of his posts to argue against Efren being on his list, Fast Larry asked how many tournaments has Efren won. When someone posted a list of Efren’s accomplishments, Fast Larry then argued that the number of tournaments won is not the only consideration. Well, what is it, Larry?
Incidentally, I also feel that number of tournaments won should not be the only measure. But at least, let’s be consistent. If we’re going to have a measure of greatness, we should all agree on a standard. But what? On number of tournaments won? On number of consecutive balls pocketed? On most money won?
Americans would immediately win in any of these categories. Since they have records of tournaments that go way back, they could argue that so-and-so won this many world titles and beat this many opponents and won this much money and pocketed this many consecutive balls.
But we can argue that Efren never competed in these tournaments. Who knows what the outcome would have been had he been there. Or any of the other great world-class players playing today for that matter.
The Efren Reyes most people know is the Efren Reyes they got to know only when he surfaced in America as Cesar Morales in 1985. Some only got to know him when he won the 1999 World Championships in Cardiff. Even a great pool aficionado and historian like Fast Larry could not know the Efren Reyes before that time, unless he talked to a lot of Filipino old-timers and players.
I saw this link in one of the other forums (or was it this one?). It was a German website (I think -- I couldn’t understand a word) and it had scans from an old Philippine magazine which featured a competition in which Efren was finally acknowledged the King of Philippine Billiards. This was in the mid-80’s, before Efren got international exposure. The writer had an interesting observation. He said that Efren was good, but until he got to compete internationally, they would never really know how good he was. When Efren finally got on the international stage in 1985, he saw how the top international pool players played. And it was then that the realization occurred to him: he was world champion all along! He just saw how they played and he knew he could beat any of them any time. And beat them he did. And up till now, he’s still winning.
Another poster in that forum who read the magazine scans noted that Efren felt that his best years were behind him and that he was at his prime during the 70’s! And yet, he’s still here now, still winning, not everything, but still making the big money (look at the AZ Players Money List 2000 to 2004 and see who’s been no. 1 most of the time).
Which begs us to think, what if Efren had been released to the world much earlier, in the 70s when he was at his prime? Imagine the number of World Titles he might have won! The money he might have earned! The number of balls he might have pocketed! The number of players he might have beaten!
I understand this is a lot of might have beens. But lets look at other criteria shall we? Fast Larry also mentioned winning important games, high stakes games. Well, let’s consider the games in Color of Money I and II. Efren vs. Earl. Both times race to 120 games. Both times won by Efren. Not bad for someone uneducated in sports psychology, physiology, zen, mental states, or whatever. Not bad for someone from a third world country used to playing with cheap cue sticks and lousy tables. Not bad for someone who’s humble enough to not think of himself as the greatest (he feels some of the ladies from the women’s leagues can beat him).
It doesn’t matter whether Efren is on Larry’s list. Everyone’s entitled to their own opinion. What matters is Efren’s on top of a lot of people’s lists, a lot of players he’s played against lists (even Earl’s and Archer’s and Jeanette Lee’s), players he hasn’t played against (Steve Mizerak ranks him on his top ten) and on the BCA Hall of Fame list. Nuff said.
Excellent first post, Renegade
Bingo! Just imagine if -- like Mosconi -- the only game Efren really focused on was Straight Pool. With his superb nudge 'em, slice 'em, spin 'em, finese 'em and always control 'em skills ideally suited for Straight Pool -- he'd have run a zillion balls. Boy, that would have been impressive, but all I can say is, thank you Efren for not taking such a straight and narrow path -- we'd have never had the pleasure of watching you perform your magic in all those other games!!!Renegade said:
This is ridiculous!
The post asked for OPINION on the best player ever, and you guys can't stop arguing over Fast's OPINION. If he doesn't like Efren then let him not like Efren. I'd put Parica on the list personally. But that is my OPINION. Good grief people, it isn't like this is going in the record books.
The post asked for OPINION on the best player ever, and you guys can't stop arguing over Fast's OPINION. If he doesn't like Efren then let him not like Efren. I'd put Parica on the list personally. But that is my OPINION. Good grief people, it isn't like this is going in the record books.
Parica is definitely on my list, too
I totally agree with you, BazookaJoe. We all have opinions and we're certainly entitled to them. (This is fun!)
BTW, Parica would be on my list also. Heck, Efren lists him as a big influence! Which is understandable since it was Parica who was King of the Table in the Philippines until Efren came along. But I guess his greatest contribution would be his leading the pack for the "Philippine Invasion" and showing the rest that it can be done!
BazookaJoe said:
I totally agree with you, BazookaJoe. We all have opinions and we're certainly entitled to them. (This is fun!)
BTW, Parica would be on my list also. Heck, Efren lists him as a big influence! Which is understandable since it was Parica who was King of the Table in the Philippines until Efren came along. But I guess his greatest contribution would be his leading the pack for the "Philippine Invasion" and showing the rest that it can be done!
I think it's hard to say who's had a better nine ball career between Earl or Efren, but few believe that Earl is a better all-round player. It's hard to even compare their games, Earl shoots like God but Efren is so much more rounded and knowledgable. Earl doesn't even bother to try his luck at these other games most of the time ( and he ran 400+ balls at 14.1, practicing). Efren still dominates the pool world overall and his "choking" doesn't seem to affect his reputation as a money player.
Most old timers still like 14.1 but the fact is , not many of the young players bother to learn. I don't know if anyone will break Willie's 526 but there may be a "Tiger" waiting for the pool world. Earl says he ran 400+, one of the Euro's said he ran 13-15 racks at nine ball and has a 400+ run (Neil Feijen?). I doubt that Willie could win anywhere near fifteen titles against todays nine ball players if they all had grew up on 14.1. Nick taught Johnny Archer the basics and he ran 200 plus in a tournement within months. Willie is still the Ben Hogan of pool or whatever and I'm sure he'd get his share but if today's players still battled at 14.1 we might get more Varners,Sigels,Mizeraks,etc...who can beat anyone when their 150 and outing poor folks like Zuglan.
I'm not sure I trust anyone who writes off one pocket. This game has it all and you can play a lifetime and still learn something new. People who complain about how lame nine ball is usually are past their prime as players. I don't know anybody who doesn't like stringing racks together. When the balls start rattling and there is no escape from the fact that you cannot run out like you want, this is when one pocket,14.1, and three cushion start looking more like true championship games. I just watched Rafael Martinez shooting live yesterday, if you think nine ball is luck then try and beat him. This game still tests people as well as any other for true natural ability.
Most old timers still like 14.1 but the fact is , not many of the young players bother to learn. I don't know if anyone will break Willie's 526 but there may be a "Tiger" waiting for the pool world. Earl says he ran 400+, one of the Euro's said he ran 13-15 racks at nine ball and has a 400+ run (Neil Feijen?). I doubt that Willie could win anywhere near fifteen titles against todays nine ball players if they all had grew up on 14.1. Nick taught Johnny Archer the basics and he ran 200 plus in a tournement within months. Willie is still the Ben Hogan of pool or whatever and I'm sure he'd get his share but if today's players still battled at 14.1 we might get more Varners,Sigels,Mizeraks,etc...who can beat anyone when their 150 and outing poor folks like Zuglan.
I'm not sure I trust anyone who writes off one pocket. This game has it all and you can play a lifetime and still learn something new. People who complain about how lame nine ball is usually are past their prime as players. I don't know anybody who doesn't like stringing racks together. When the balls start rattling and there is no escape from the fact that you cannot run out like you want, this is when one pocket,14.1, and three cushion start looking more like true championship games. I just watched Rafael Martinez shooting live yesterday, if you think nine ball is luck then try and beat him. This game still tests people as well as any other for true natural ability.
The Miz and the Rifleman
I agree with you that these two men bring the smoothest strokes, pace and position play to the table of any modern player of the game. I personally belive that no one will ever win 4 us open championships in a row again like Steve. I think Buddy is such a gifted player that people who love Nine Ball will study his play for generations to come.Both men are possessed of such great knowledge of the game of pool that the World is better for them playing the game. Since buddy is still playing and playing well take your children to see him if you can, should they ever want to play the game at a high level no one is a finer example of how it should be played than Buddy.
blud said:
I agree with you that these two men bring the smoothest strokes, pace and position play to the table of any modern player of the game. I personally belive that no one will ever win 4 us open championships in a row again like Steve. I think Buddy is such a gifted player that people who love Nine Ball will study his play for generations to come.Both men are possessed of such great knowledge of the game of pool that the World is better for them playing the game. Since buddy is still playing and playing well take your children to see him if you can, should they ever want to play the game at a high level no one is a finer example of how it should be played than Buddy.
fast larry
Banned
bud green said:
Hi this is Fast, my comments about what I feel about one hole are very out dated by a very out dated guy from another era. They were probably true in the 50's when 14.1 rules and Mosconi did as well.
Today nobody is playing 14.1, the world event was cancelled by the BCA years ago which doomed this as the championship game and into the back of the rule book to be soon forgotten.
Today, the days of the ball runners are over. Why should any young pro devote 10 years of his life mastering a dead game where there is no money to be made on it.
If the back room gamblers want to slug it out over one hole, that is where the best players will go. That does not prove that is the best game, that only proves that is the game these choose to gamble hugh stakes of cash over.
My opinion of one pocket has been revised, but I still do not choose to play it. Mosconis and my opinion of one pocket are exactly the same, and nobody today cares to hear it. So why do you keep asking me, because you know my answer, what it will be so you can beat me up on it. A am a dinosour and a relic from the past, let me graze in my pasteur and try and stop messing with my wa please. Go chase the young cows in the other pasteur, get out of mine please.
May God bless and peace be with you. May the wind be always on your back and all 9 balls fall. VENI VIDI VICI, OMNIA VINCIT AMOR. Latin for “I came, I saw, I conquered, love conquerors all. Yes I really did do it all and you can believe it, or not. If you don’t believe it, C’est La Vie. A prophet is not recognized in his own land. Rack em sausage, Go play fast and loose. In time, it’s all dust in the wind anyway.
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best pool player ever
Quote From: Fast Larry
(9) Jimmy Caras Jacksonville, Fla, USA.
A real class guy. He was the only player to win pool world championships in 4 separate decades. The first player to run over 300 balls on a 5x10' table with 4 l/2" pockets in 1939. His 150 and out on national TV in the 1966 US open against Joe Balsis, the meatman sealed his fame and preserved his game on film for future generations to study. The teacher of Mike Sigel. Hall of famer.
Irving Crane tought Mike Sigel how to play pool.
Call him and ask him, I know him well.
Quote From: Fast Larry
(9) Jimmy Caras Jacksonville, Fla, USA.
A real class guy. He was the only player to win pool world championships in 4 separate decades. The first player to run over 300 balls on a 5x10' table with 4 l/2" pockets in 1939. His 150 and out on national TV in the 1966 US open against Joe Balsis, the meatman sealed his fame and preserved his game on film for future generations to study. The teacher of Mike Sigel. Hall of famer.
Irving Crane tought Mike Sigel how to play pool.
Call him and ask him, I know him well.
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Duck said:
Everyone always forgets Mizerak when debating the
greatest players. I agree that his 4 straight U.S.
Open 14.1 wins are incredible. He would definitely
be in my top 3 best all-around pool players along
with Sigel and Reyes. I also agree that Buddy is the
man in 9 ball. If I were to ever decide to make a
serious effort to improve my 9 ball game I would
use Buddy Hall as a model.
Bobby
Craig said:
Craig,
Irving was one of Mike's teachers. When Mike discovered nine ball and MONEY, Larry Hubbard (Iceman) became his mentor. Lots of us here in Rochester remember Mike at a young age. Some of us taught him the game. Soon after, we were then taught by the best ever (imho). Unfortunately, Irving passed away several years ago. Mike remembers playing and learning from Irv. Irv suffered from selective memory as he grew older.
Incidently, there was another young man, who moved to Rochester about the same time as Mike was rising, who showed equal promise. Mike once mentioned to me that our friend Pat Howey played 14.1 patterns as well as anyone he had ever seen. Pat chose to work an "every day" job instead of travelling. He used to run a couple hundred balls on me on a regular basis. Strange how one decision changes the rest of your life!
Lindrum/Davis???
You make some good points but I can hardly see how you can include Walter Lindrum in at the #2 spot without mentioning Joe Davis. Davis held world titles in that era at both English Billiards (Lindrum's game) and snooker. In fact he held the world snooker title for 20 straight years (1927-1947) when he retired undefeated. I know these discussions include a lot of great champions but show me one who never lost a match for 20 years!
I also can't see how you list Steve Davis as the best snooker player of all time. Without even brining Joe Davis or Ray Reardon into the picture I can tell you that almost anyone in that game (Davis included) will admit that Stephen Hendry has surpassed all those who came before him.
For those who don't know, Hendry is the all-time cuesport prodigy. He first learned to play when he was 12, and at 13 he won the UK Junior championships, and at 15 the Scottish National Championship! He turned professional at 16, and won his first professional tournament at 19. He won his first world championship at age 21 and would continue to win 7 more. During the 1990's, during which time snooker saw an unprecedented explosion of depth and talent, Hendry was #1 for 9 years. He has almost 600 centuries (100 point runs) in official competition (this is almost double the closest contender) and 8 perfect games. He once had 7 centuries in a single match, and 16 in a single tournament. He has won more money than any other cueist who has ever lived (career earnings about £11,000,000). He once made almost £400,000 in a single tournament, which that year was more money than all tournament winnings for all pool players in America for the entire year. He holds about 80 major titles.
With the exception of Joe Davis' 20 consecutive world titles, Hendry holds every other record in that sport. To not put him on a top ten list of the greatest cueists of all time is a grave injustice.
You make some good points but I can hardly see how you can include Walter Lindrum in at the #2 spot without mentioning Joe Davis. Davis held world titles in that era at both English Billiards (Lindrum's game) and snooker. In fact he held the world snooker title for 20 straight years (1927-1947) when he retired undefeated. I know these discussions include a lot of great champions but show me one who never lost a match for 20 years!
I also can't see how you list Steve Davis as the best snooker player of all time. Without even brining Joe Davis or Ray Reardon into the picture I can tell you that almost anyone in that game (Davis included) will admit that Stephen Hendry has surpassed all those who came before him.
For those who don't know, Hendry is the all-time cuesport prodigy. He first learned to play when he was 12, and at 13 he won the UK Junior championships, and at 15 the Scottish National Championship! He turned professional at 16, and won his first professional tournament at 19. He won his first world championship at age 21 and would continue to win 7 more. During the 1990's, during which time snooker saw an unprecedented explosion of depth and talent, Hendry was #1 for 9 years. He has almost 600 centuries (100 point runs) in official competition (this is almost double the closest contender) and 8 perfect games. He once had 7 centuries in a single match, and 16 in a single tournament. He has won more money than any other cueist who has ever lived (career earnings about £11,000,000). He once made almost £400,000 in a single tournament, which that year was more money than all tournament winnings for all pool players in America for the entire year. He holds about 80 major titles.
With the exception of Joe Davis' 20 consecutive world titles, Hendry holds every other record in that sport. To not put him on a top ten list of the greatest cueists of all time is a grave injustice.
fast larry said:FL RESPONDS;
billfishhead
Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: nw fla
Posts: 141
The greatest player who ever held a cue? Nobody ever got close to his star power and fame. He holds 100 world championship crowns. Nobody in any category even comes close to him. In his era he was equal to Babe Ruth.
He made more money than the Bambino or the president. Hall of famer.
(1) Willie Hoppe, Cromwell, NY, USA.
Probably the greatest player who ever lived. His records and his victories are so Hugh they are hard to believe. Virtually unknown in this country. He was from Oz, down under. No worries mate, this bloke has a serious claim even to take the top #1 spot.
(2) Walter Lindgrum Australia
The greatest pool player of his time, his record is almost equal with Mosoni's but hard drink cut his career 10 yrs short. He was the greatest star pool has ever had. He also in his time in his game, Pool, was equal in star status to Hoppe or Babe Ruth. Hall of famer
(3) Ralph Greenleaf NYC, USA.
The greatest ball runner of all time and holder of the most world championships in pool. Hall of famer
(4) Willie Mosconi Philadelphia, Pa, USA
My fifth pick is not a great player. He was a great gambler and showman. In playing ability, ball running ability he does not stack up to any one on this list. Have Mike Sigel and Steve Mizerak both walk into a room and set up on a table and begin doing a show in the far opposite corners of the pool room and begin to do what ever they want to do. Say the year is 1980 and Have Minnesota Fats walk in and set up in the 3rd corner on a table. He does not even have to take his cue out of his case. He can stand there and just bull S*** and soon Mike and Miz does not have a single person watching them. The entire room is around fatty. He can hold them there mesmerized and never pot a ball or perform a trick shot. He was the greatest star and attraction of his era. He still is today the most recognized name in pool. Does any name survey any where on earth today and his name comes up first. Hall of famer. He also had a dog that played pool.
At one time he had over 50 dogs and he fed them all and treated them like kings. The man had a heart of gold.
(5) Rudolph Walderone, aka, Minnesota Fats. NYC, CHI, Southern Ill, USA.
The greatest Snooker player of all time. He has won more money than any body else on this list. The greatest ball potter of his time. Simply a world wide super star.
(6) Steve Davis. UK.
(7) The greatest 3-cushion billiard player of his time, Mr. 100, winning 100 world wide victories. Hall of famer
Raymound Cuelemans Belgium
The greatest Balkline player of all time. The man had the touch of a Hong Kong subway pickpocket. Hall of famer.
(8) Jake Schaefer Jr USA.
A 5 time world champion, hall of famer. A 3 time world champion before Mosconi broke through and began his dominance. He was also one of my teachers. Of the golden age ball runners he put on the best over all show and shot the best trick shots.
(9) Jimmy Caras Jacksonville, Fla, USA.
A real class guy. He was the only player to win pool world championships in 4 separate decades. The first player to run over 300 balls on a 5x10' table with 4 l/2" pockets in 1939. His 150 and out on national TV in the 1965 US open against Joe Balsis, the meatman sealed his fame and preserved his game on film for future generations to study. The teacher of Mike Sigel. Hall of famer.
(10) Irving Crane New York, USA
Do have fun debating my personal picks. Maybe I am right on some, maybe I am wrong, who knows.
A Quote from a Billiard Player who sometimes stopped playing and wrote a book or two of note. SC.
'' It were not best that we should all think alike:
It is difference of opinion that makes horse races."
The Billiard player was Mark Twain.
May God bless and peace be with you. May the wind be always on your back and all 9 balls fall. VENI VIDI VICI, OMNIA VINCIT AMOR. Latin for “I came, I saw, I conquered, love conquerors all.
“Fast Larry” Guninger
century breaks
Careful here - the stats report that Joe had 687 centuries, but these are career centuries, competition and practice. Hendry has about 600 in competition and...ready...about 4000 in practice! He said he gave up counting after he made 30 in one day!
Joe ran the game's first 147 maximum, that's common knowledge. Meanwhile Willie Thorne holds the record for career maximums with (as of most recent info) with 190+. Hendry, meanwhile, is the record holder for tournament maximums with eight. For making those he has won a Bentley, a Mercedes-Benz, a Rolls-Royce, a Ferrari, a Jaguar and, of course, a Skoda. He quipped that if he had missed the last black at the very end they were going to give him two Skodas. One year he made a 147 at the World Championship and was paid off to the tune of £147,000.
Careful here - the stats report that Joe had 687 centuries, but these are career centuries, competition and practice. Hendry has about 600 in competition and...ready...about 4000 in practice! He said he gave up counting after he made 30 in one day!
Joe ran the game's first 147 maximum, that's common knowledge. Meanwhile Willie Thorne holds the record for career maximums with (as of most recent info) with 190+. Hendry, meanwhile, is the record holder for tournament maximums with eight. For making those he has won a Bentley, a Mercedes-Benz, a Rolls-Royce, a Ferrari, a Jaguar and, of course, a Skoda. He quipped that if he had missed the last black at the very end they were going to give him two Skodas. One year he made a 147 at the World Championship and was paid off to the tune of £147,000.
Slasher said:
gromulan said:
I absolutely agree with you that Stephen Hendry is the
greatest all-time player in cue sports. When I tell
my pool playing friends about his accomplishments and
how good he is they don't seem to believe me. I
believe that if he or any of the top guys (Higgins,
Williams, O'Sullivan) were to play straight pool they
might never stop running balls! It would be a joke.
Although I think Hendry is the greatest, I think that
Ronnie O'Sullivan is the most naturally talented player
I've ever seen. I have two of his 147's on video. Both
in the Embassy World Championships (1997,2003) The 1997
one was the fastest 147 in history (5min 20sec) It's
unreal how fast he clears the table!
A note about Walter Lindrum; he dominated English
Billiards his whole life. In fact, after years of
dominating the sport he would spot all the top players
7,000 points in a match (Joe Davis included) and
usually won still. He had 4 2000 point runs in one
tournament! So he surely deserves a place among the
all-time greatest.
Bobby
