Best Recovering Method for an Amateur?

jviss

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Greetings mechanics,

I've never recovered a table before, but I'm quite mechanically inclined, and I've seen it done. :)

I prefer the glue method to staples for the bed. Is it wise for an amateur to proceed this way?

What's the best available set of instructions for recovering?

Thanks,

jv

p.s. it's a Gold Crown I, and I'm using CPBA Competition cloth.
 

gazman100

CTE - Qld Australia
Silver Member
A GC3 which I reclothed in "CPBA Competition cloth." was 2 inches too short in the width. In other words the width of the cloth would not roll down to the slate timber which made the install challenging to say the least.
Maybe I just got a bad one. Maybe Trent can comment.
Cheers
 

jviss

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
For comparison, here are the dimensions of CPBA v. Simonis for a 9' table:

SimonisCPBA
Bed Length112"109"
Bed Width60"60"
Rail Length56"54 3/4"
Rail Width6"6"

Simonis measurements: Simonis Standard Cloth Cutting Guide
CPBA: measured from actual cloth
 

trentfromtoledo

8onthebreaktoledo
Gold Member
Silver Member
This is one of those things that i just dont have time to go over in the amount of detail needed to explain it all. I know quite a few things about CPBA and installing it. It is not an entry level install.

TFT
 

fastone371

Certifiable
Silver Member
For comparison, here are the dimensions of CPBA v. Simonis for a 9' table:

SimonisCPBA
Bed Length112"109"
Bed Width60"60"
Rail Length56"54 3/4"
Rail Width6"6"

Simonis measurements: Simonis Standard Cloth Cutting Guide
CPBA: measured from actual cloth
Although it looks like the CPBA cloth is cut plenty big its really not. The 100" measurement on a 9' table is cushion nose to cushion nose so you easily have a couple more inches of slate under the rail. Since Im not a table mechanic and I dont cover tables everyday this is purely a guess but there is probably 3" of slate under the cushion and rail assembly, that comes out to about 106" just to cover the top of the slate. Then you have to wrap it over the edge and stretch it, I dont know the stretch index compared to Simonis but it sounds like its going to be a tough pull, 2" inches of cloth isnt much to grab on to, stretch, and staple or glue down all at the same time.
 

bradsh98

Bradshaw Billiard Service
Gold Member
Silver Member
It does not index like Simonis at all....
TFT
I would assume that it stretches much more, given that they are short on the length. Correct? I've never used it.

I know that some of the cheaper worsted cloth will stretch quite a bit. However, ProForm 505 has a similar index to 860HR, despite the lower cost/quality. I'm curious how this compares, not that I plan to install it anytime soon.
 

jviss

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Here's what I found for CPBA Competition, apparently from the manufacturer, on the Amazon page for this:

"Stretch index: Stretch about 1"-1.5" in width and 2"-2.5" in length will give the best result."

(I assume they are talking about a 9' table, but they don't specify.)
 

jviss

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Although it looks like the CPBA cloth is cut plenty big its really not. The 100" measurement on a 9' table is cushion nose to cushion nose so you easily have a couple more inches of slate under the rail. Since Im not a table mechanic and I dont cover tables everyday this is purely a guess but there is probably 3" of slate under the cushion and rail assembly, that comes out to about 106" just to cover the top of the slate. Then you have to wrap it over the edge and stretch it, I dont know the stretch index compared to Simonis but it sounds like its going to be a tough pull, 2" inches of cloth isnt much to grab on to, stretch, and staple or glue down all at the same time.
The Gold Crown slate for a 9' table is 57 x 107". The cloth is 109", "relaxed." You're going to stretch it 2 to 2 1/2" in length when installing. I would think it would be fine. If it's a problem, you could use one of those duck-billed Vice Grips, no?
 

Sheldon

dontneednostinkintitle
Silver Member
This video is really close to what I learned from Glen. I think it's an excellent method.
The stretch is a bit light, in my opinion.
 

bradsh98

Bradshaw Billiard Service
Gold Member
Silver Member
The Gold Crown slate for a 9' table is 57 x 107". The cloth is 109", "relaxed." You're going to stretch it 2 to 2 1/2" in length when installing. I would think it would be fine. If it's a problem, you could use one of those duck-billed Vice Grips, no?
Wow! That's very little stretch, width and length... It sure seems like this will be a difficult install, for a diy.
 

bradsh98

Bradshaw Billiard Service
Gold Member
Silver Member
i foresee many shadows ! Of the STRETCH type!

TFT
I now understand your previous comments. Unfortunately, you just can't teach experience. This seems like a cloth that could be a difficult install, even for an experienced installer.

My advice to JVISS: take your time. Measure it out first, and try to stretch it straight. I prefer canvas pullers, over vice grips.
 

trentfromtoledo

8onthebreaktoledo
Gold Member
Silver Member
I now understand your previous comments. Unfortunately, you just can't teach experience. This seems like a cloth that could be a difficult install, even for an experienced installer.

My advice to JVISS: take your time. Measure it out first, and try to stretch it straight. I prefer canvas pullers, over vice grips.
was just being honest. i have installed quite a few cuts of this cloth. People want to spend less and DIY, the results will surely vary.

TFT
 

jviss

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I now understand your previous comments. Unfortunately, you just can't teach experience. This seems like a cloth that could be a difficult install, even for an experienced installer.

My advice to JVISS: take your time. Measure it out first, and try to stretch it straight. I prefer canvas pullers, over vice grips.
Thanks Geoff. I'm not sure how the stretch recommendation I posted is being interpreted; when the vendor says "about 1"-1.5" in width and 2"-2.5" in length will give the best result,"" I don't think they are saying that's the maximum stretch for the cloth, and maybe they aren't recommending it be stretched as tight as you might do. We'll see, I guess.

"Stretch it straight" really resonated with me, thanks, I'm glad you said it that way. I imagine that's what all of the marking is about to make sure that one not only stretches it tightly, but that it is stretched evenly in both dimensions. Is that what you meant? I would imagine evenly is more important that the actual tension.

Canvas pullers, check - found them on Amazon, seems like they will be better than Vice Grips, although they don't lock.

jv
 

trentfromtoledo

8onthebreaktoledo
Gold Member
Silver Member
Thanks Geoff. I'm not sure how the stretch recommendation I posted is being interpreted; when the vendor says "about 1"-1.5" in width and 2"-2.5" in length will give the best result,"" I don't think they are saying that's the maximum stretch for the cloth, and maybe they aren't recommending it be stretched as tight as you might do. We'll see, I guess.

"Stretch it straight" really resonated with me, thanks, I'm glad you said it that way. I imagine that's what all of the marking is about to make sure that one not only stretches it tightly, but that it is stretched evenly in both dimensions. Is that what you meant? I would imagine evenly is more important that the actual tension.

Canvas pullers, check - found them on Amazon, seems like they will be better than Vice Grips, although they don't lock.

jv
Lets see the results with plenty of light! take pics!

TFT
 

bradsh98

Bradshaw Billiard Service
Gold Member
Silver Member
Thanks Geoff. I'm not sure how the stretch recommendation I posted is being interpreted; when the vendor says "about 1"-1.5" in width and 2"-2.5" in length will give the best result,"" I don't think they are saying that's the maximum stretch for the cloth, and maybe they aren't recommending it be stretched as tight as you might do. We'll see, I guess.

"Stretch it straight" really resonated with me, thanks, I'm glad you said it that way. I imagine that's what all of the marking is about to make sure that one not only stretches it tightly, but that it is stretched evenly in both dimensions. Is that what you meant? I would imagine evenly is more important that the actual tension.

Canvas pullers, check - found them on Amazon, seems like they will be better than Vice Grips, although they don't lock.

jv
You are correct. The marking represents a reference line, which allows you to pull the cloth straight.

Additionally, you never want to stretch a cloth to its maximum ability. Going a little lighter on the width, and heavier on the length allows for less stretch shadows. Though you still want to mark the ends, to ensure that the cloth is pulled straight along the ends of the table. I don't believe the Simonis videos show that. I stretch Simonis 860HR 1 5/8" across the width (on a Gold Crown), which allows me to go heavier on the length stretch, leaving no stretch shadows.

Just a side note: if this were a cloth like Championship Tour Edition, I wouldn't have any concerns. That cloth has a much higher stretch, and is MUCH easier to install. I can tell, simply by the numbers, that this one will be difficult.

Having not previously installed cloth before, I can imagine that you will struggle with the nuances. Many experienced installers complain that Simonis 860HR is difficult to install. Knowing the recommended stretch, this cloth will be more difficult to install. Not having prior experience, you won't know the tricks of the trade, which make it all work. Unfortunately, "feel" is difficult to teach. What I mean by that: when I pull a cloth across a table, I can feel how far that it needs to be stretched, in which directions, and what is going to yield a good looking install. I can also feel how much slack I need to close the pockets, and where to pull the cloth, if I leave too much slack. However, that feel came from years of installing cloth.

Not trying to discourage you, by any means.. Only offering advice, from my own experience. I believe that you said that you wanted to do a glue down installation. Though, I might recommend that you staple instead.. This will allow more flexibility, should you make a mistake. I can only imagine that there will be mistakes. And that's OK! Just be realistic with your expectations, and take your time. Worry less about what they recommend for a length stretch, and more about ensuring that it is stretched straight along the ends. You will have a hard time stretching the cloth across the width of the table.. If you attach your first side with the edge of the cloth at the bottom of the slate liner, you will likely be a bit short on cloth across the width. Just another consideration for stapling.
 
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