"Best" way to check for taper roll?

T

tg_vegas

Well-known member
I recently had an interaction on a sale where the buyer was concerned about Taper roll. I'm wondering if there is a "standard practice" way to measure taper roll that is accepted by most as the "right way"

The only way I've done it is to put the very bottom of the butt on the cloth with the cue resting on a rail, and then roll it, looking for wobble at the tip.

Is there a more scientific way to do this, and hopefully document it? Obviously, we could chuck up the cue and use a dial indicator along the length but for quick evaluations, that is not practical.

Flame suit in place. Thoughts?
 
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I am not a cue maker, but this has been my experience with people that are picky all over taper roll
you probably don’t want to sell to them.
I had never sold a cue saying it is perfectly straight
avoids an argument if it there is a tiny wobble.
i have tried putting my phone on the table and try to video the shaft rolling to show the space that occurs
again my experience is to avoid buyers who want perfect
jmho
 
Just roll it on a pool table. look for any wobble and determine if it is significant to you / them. do it with both pieces individually to test each piece then together to see if the joint is square to the center-line. If this is not "good enough" some one does not understand basic physics, wood, reality, pool cues, center-line relationship rolling as it relates to a flat plane, etc... Perfect is a dream. Tell them to wake up! Near perfect is not UN-common and should be expected on any quality cue.
 
"Taper roll" is complete BS. The cue is either straight or it is not.
Roll the pieces apart, then put the cue together and roll it with the joint on the rail.
If they're straight apart and not together the joint needs re-facing. It's also possible that the pin is not perfectly concentric. With large pins and tight tolerances, this can also cause an issue at the joint.
 
As far as I know the best way is to hold the cue in front of your eye and look down the length of it while turning. Rolling on the table is influenced by more factors, including the wrap, cloth and taper of the cue.
 
Another little trick for checking straightness: if you are dexterous enough to rest the butt pin down on a table (vertically) and give it a good spin with your fingers, you can check how straight the pin and the rest of it are pretty easily.
 
It is
Sheldon said:
"Taper roll" is complete BS. The cue is either straight or it is not.
Roll the pieces apart, then put the cue together and roll it with the joint on the rail.
If they're straight apart and not together the joint needs re-facing. It's also possible that the pin is not perfectly concentric. With large pins and tight tolerances, this can also cause an issue at the joint.
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Taper Roll is not BS. You described taper roll in your post when you said it is possible the pin is off center. This causes the shaft to be trimmed with the back couple of inches off center to the taper of the rest of the shaft causing taper roll. This is how the majority of the cues from the 80s and before were made.
 
cueman said:
Taper Roll is not BS. You described taper roll in your post when you said it is possible the pin is off center. This causes the shaft to be trimmed with the back couple of inches off center to the taper of the rest of the shaft causing taper roll. This is how the majority of the cues from the 80s and before were made.
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I guess I just feel the term is misleading. If the pin is off center, the cue is flawed, and this should be disclosed.
 
Taper roll is a made up term that some use to a sell a cue that is flawed in some fashion or another.
The cue is either straight and correctly constructed or it is probably flawed. Hence the term "taper roll" was invented by some crafty sales person to try and soften the blow.
If the butt and/or shaft is not round (egg shaped) or straight, then it may have a taper roll. 🙄
 
Sheldon said:
I guess I just feel the term is misleading. If the pin is off center, the cue is flawed, and this should be disclosed.
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Check the cues from the 70s and 80s and see how many pins were dead nuts like most get them today. I first heard this term from a Salesman in the late 70s when buying a Viking Cue. He let me trade it back in on a McDermott that rolled perfect. I agree something is not perfect if there is taper roll, but taper roll is real and it is not a warp.
 
BarenbruggeCues said:
Taper roll is a made up term that some use to a sell a cue that is flawed in some fashion or another.
The cue is either straight and correctly constructed or it is probably flawed. Hence the term "taper roll" was invented by some crafty sales person to try and soften the blow.
If the butt and/or shaft is not round (egg shaped) or straight, then it may have a taper roll. 🙄
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Eulcid applauds you !

Dave
 
cueman said:
Check the cues from the 70s and 80s and see how many pins were dead nuts like most get them today. I first heard this term from a Salesman in the late 70s when buying a Viking Cue. He let me trade it back in on a McDermott that rolled perfect. I agree something is not perfect if there is taper roll, but taper roll is real and it is not a warp.
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What if you remove the pin from consideration and only roll the shaft? When I roll one of my shafts, the tip stays on the cloth, and when I look at the middle of the shaft--where it is tapered and the shaft does not touch the cloth--the height of the light shining under the middle of the shaft remains virtually constant throughout the roll. When I roll another one of my shafts, the tip stays on the cloth, but when I watch the middle of the shaft, the band of light under the middle of the shaft completely disappears at one point in the roll. In other words, from the tip to the joint the whole shaft is touching the cloth at one point. Isn't that a warp?
 
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7stud said:
when I watch the middle of the shaft, the band of light under the middle of the shaft completely disappears at one point in the roll. In other words, from the tip to the joint the whole shaft is touching the cloth at one point. Isn't that a warp?
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Yes. See post #10. ;)
 
Taper roll becomes excessive when I miss a ball or fail to get shape.

Until then it's just fine.

Cues with good tips tend to have less objectionable taper roll.

Also having the shaft slick helps to minimize it.

The price of the cue is also a factor. The formula is you measure the runout of the shaft in thousandths and multiply it by the asking price. The higher the number you come up with the more the cue has the dreaded taper roll.

As you can see it's a complex issue.
 
7stud said:
What if you remove the pin from consideration and only roll the shaft? When I roll one of my shafts, the tip stays on the cloth, and when I look at the middle of the shaft--where it is tapered and the shaft does not touch the cloth--the height of the light shining under the middle of the shaft remains virtually constant throughout the roll. When I roll another one of my shafts, the tip stays on the cloth, but when I watch the middle of the shaft, the band of light under the middle of the shaft completely disappears at one point in the roll. In other words, from the tip to the joint the whole shaft is touching the cloth at one point. Isn't that a warp?
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No, because the back few inches of the shafts were trimmed off center to the rest of the shaft. So it shows daylight and darkness when rolled.
 
The only way i've ever used is to roll it on a table. Nothing is ever going to be perfect, everything will have a slight wobble to it, it just depends on how much you can live with
 
7stud said:
What if the shaft is carbon?
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It could be either warp or taper roll. Could even be egg shaped shaft instead of round. I am not defending taper roll as acceptable. I am just saying it is a real thing and is not a warp. When the term was invented the majority of the cues had at least a little because almost no pins and inserts had been put in perfectly concentric.
 
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