BHE - Not An Exact Science

Patrick Johnson

Patrick Johnson

Fargo 1000 on VP4
Silver Member
Back Hand English (BHE)
Like Everything Else In Pool, Not An Exact Science

Back Hand English means applying side spin by pivoting the cue at the bridge, moving just the back (grip) hand sideways. The idea is based on the bridge being near the shaft's unique "squirt pivot point" (usually 10-12") - pivoting there to apply side spin angles the cue across the aim line so a straight stroke theoretically exactly counteracts the squirt produced by any tip offset.

But as usual, reality scoffs at our puny "theories", mainly because:
- swerve, which is usually present with english and squirt, curves the CB in the other direction a variable amount (up to 100+%)
- bridge lengths and pivot lengths vary, and only match up by chance

This variability makes "mechanical" (straight stroke) BHE an approximation in most cases that needs to be tweaked different amounts for different shots. Tweaking is done (often subconsciously) by:
- moving/changing the bridge
- "swooping" the stroke, changing the tip's direction of movement at contact to:
* change the amount of squirt correction (sideways grip/tip movement)
* change the amount of swerve (vertical grip/tip movement)

pj <- had to get that off my chest
chgo
 
At my level, perfecting it seems pointless. I take the more practical option of patterning for shots that fall into the fat zone of whatever control is required.
 
yeah like all ideas it's just a guide; a useful repeatable framework to build on for those who dont have any to begin with.

of course, it doesnt cover everything, which is why theres FHE, which is a systematic and repeatable way to adjust for swerve etc.

theres no system that can account for all the variables anyway, plus we still have to factor in cut induced throw etc.

if i pick up an unfamiliar cue and cant seem to use it instinctively i just apply bhe and fhe (or at least my own version of it, but same idea) principles and i should be able to figure it out quite quickly.

one factor that i knew about but never truly appreciated until i put in the work is that the more level your stroke, the easier it is to (have some semblance of) minimise swerve to a predictable level. i've noticed that some people that i have met have trouble applying just BHE alone is because every shot they play is effectively like a masse
 
In my experience BHE works very well in a certain range of cut angles and distance between the cue ball and object ball. This varies of course from person to person. Stroke to stroke. Shaft to shaft.

A player has to learn these outer limits of reliability for their own abilities and equipment and be able to recognize when it's a go or no go shot for BHE.

Once you accept and learn this BHE is kick ass.
 
pinkspider said:
FHE ... is a systematic and repeatable way to adjust for swerve etc.
Click to expand...
I’ve never heard that - I think it’s just reverse backhand English for lower squirt cues. Has to be “tweaked” for swerve the same ways.

...the more level your stroke, the easier it is to (have some semblance of) minimise swerve to a predictable level. i've noticed that some people that i have met have trouble applying just BHE alone is because every shot they play is effectively like a masse
Click to expand...
Yes, less butt elevation = less swerve. But there’s just about always some butt elevation, so usually swerve too unless the shot is close or fast.

pj
chgo
 
JC said:
In my experience BHE works very well in a certain range of cut angles and distance between the cue ball and object ball.
Click to expand...
Yes, and its range can be extended by learning the necessary tweaks, which I suppose we all do over time, consciously or not.

pj
chgo
 
As I continue to work on improving my game, and as I watch high end players on video, I am coming to the conclusion that a very important part of success (pocketing balls consistently with a stroke that has you release the cue, enhancing speed control) is getting down on a chosen line and applying a completely relaxed, unmanipulated stroke along that exact line, not along some other line, not even a line that is only a “hair” off from the chosen one. (And if you don’t like the line you originally chose, get up and reset.) Using BHE, by definition, has you stroking across, not along, your natural stroke line. That is a significant negative, IMO.
 
Seth C. said:
Using BHE, by definition, has you stroking across, not along, your natural stroke line.
Click to expand...
BHE is just another way to find the same squirt-correcting cue angle you’d find any other way. How you align yourself with it and stroke is up to you.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
I’ve never heard that - I think it’s just reverse backhand English for lower squirt cues. Has to be “tweaked” for swerve the same ways.
Click to expand...

i can only really speak for my own application so it might differ from Dr Dave's or others' interpretation; for me, I don't use that as a ready-made adjustment for lower squirt cues (though I'm pretty sure that it will work for the way some people set up), it's more like a repeatable/replicable form of 'tweaking' for me.

Patrick Johnson said:
Yes, less butt elevation = less swerve. But there’s just about always some butt elevation, so usually swerve too unless the shot is close or fast.
Click to expand...

It wasn't the case before but with a more level stroke I usually don't factor swerve in for a lot of shots unless I have to. But the level cue thing for me is just something I demand from myself. Looking at the big picture, I feel it doesn't really matter if the player is diligent enough to be exact about every shot at every distance. He or she could well masse every shot successfully if they wanted to, if they are conscientious enough, which I think is the bigger determinant for successful shotmaking. Alas, I am less talented than most, so 'proper' mechanics it is for me.

Oh anyway just in case I didn't make it clear previously, I agree with you that it's not an exact science. Just too many darned things out of our control. Plus, it would make the game so boring if it were so simple... Why don't we just play yahoo pool with a ruler and a mouse instead hahaha...
 
Seth C. said:
Using BHE, by definition, has you stroking across, not along, your natural stroke line. That is a significant negative, IMO.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's a problem if the cueing arm is not impeded. but you can always get up and set up your stance to shoot along that line if you want to do things the right way. Ultimately it's just a guide
 
Patrick Johnson said:
BHE is just another way to find the same squirt-correcting cue angle you’d find any other way. How you align yourself with it and stroke is up to you.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

Yes, of course it is up to you. But that ignores the point, which is that the BHE (pivot the cue) way brings with it a change is stroke line that represents a significant and undesirable challenge - accurately stroking along a line that is not one’s natural line.
 
pinkspider said:
I don't think it's a problem if the cueing arm is not impeded. but you can always get up and set up your stance to shoot along that line if you want to do things the right way. Ultimately it's just a guide
Click to expand...

Okay, but then you are no longer pivoting, and in my mind you are no longer applying BHE. Also not sure how you keep the precise stroke line that you created with a BHE pivot if you get up and reset your body on a new orientation.
 
Seth C. said:
BHE (pivot the cue) way brings with it a change is stroke line
Click to expand...
Only if you let it.

Don't get too hung up on the word "pivot" - it only means "place your bridge as usual". You can "pivot" before even getting into your stance, or after getting into your stance but before stroking, or even by moving nothing until during the shot stroke ("swooping" BHE). All of that is why it's "not an exact science".

Whatever and whenever you "pivot", you end up in the same place (and stance if you like) as if you adjusted your aim for squirt with no "pivot" at all.

pj
chgo
 
pinkspider said:
yeah like all ideas it's just a guide; a useful repeatable framework to build on for those who dont have any to begin with.

of course, it doesnt cover everything, which is why theres FHE, which is a systematic and repeatable way to adjust for swerve etc.

theres no system that can account for all the variables anyway, plus we still have to factor in cut induced throw etc.

if i pick up an unfamiliar cue and cant seem to use it instinctively i just apply bhe and fhe (or at least my own version of it, but same idea) principles and i should be able to figure it out quite quickly.

one factor that i knew about but never truly appreciated until i put in the work is that the more level your stroke, the easier it is to (have some semblance of) minimise swerve to a predictable level. i've noticed that some people that i have met have trouble applying just BHE alone is because every shot they play is effectively like a masse
Click to expand...

Have you noticed how many of the level strokers drop their elbow more or less than other more text book players?
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Back Hand English (BHE)
Like Everything Else In Pool, Not An Exact Science

Back Hand English means applying side spin by pivoting the cue at the bridge, moving just the back (grip) hand sideways. The idea is based on the bridge being near the shaft's unique "squirt pivot point" (usually 10-12") - pivoting there to apply side spin angles the cue across the aim line so a straight stroke theoretically exactly counteracts the squirt produced by any tip offset.

But as usual, reality scoffs at our puny "theories", mainly because:
- swerve, which is usually present with english and squirt, curves the CB in the other direction a variable amount (up to 100+%)
- bridge lengths and pivot lengths vary, and only match up by chance

This variability makes "mechanical" (straight stroke) BHE an approximation in most cases that needs to be tweaked different amounts for different shots. Tweaking is done (often subconsciously) by:
- moving/changing the bridge
- "swooping" the stroke, changing the tip's direction of movement at contact to:
* change the amount of squirt correction (sideways grip/tip movement)
* change the amount of swerve (vertical grip/tip movement)

pj <- had to get that off my chest
chgo
Click to expand...

I use a combination of FHE and BHE to align my cue so I can use my shaft sides as proper aim points. Which is an exact technique/method that has repeatability to it. Don’t be going around spouting misinformation when you only see half the picture.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Only if you let it.

Don't get too hung up on the word "pivot" - it only means "place your bridge as usual". You can "pivot" before even getting into your stance, or after getting into your stance but before stroking, or even by moving nothing until during the shot stroke ("swooping" BHE). All of that is why it's "not an exact science".

Whatever and whenever you "pivot", you end up in the same place (and stance if you like) as if you adjusted your aim for squirt with no "pivot" at all.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

Well, if one defines BHE the way that you defined it it your initial post (“Back Hand English means applying side spin by pivoting the cue at the bridge, moving just the back (grip) hand sideways,” then pivoting is happening after getting into your (center CB) stance but before stroking. And isn’t that really the point of BHE (like it or not, use it or not) - that you can line up a shot as if you were going to use no side spin and then pivot your back however much you’d like (up to the miscue limit) and be able to trust that the OB will go where it would have gone had you stayed center ball and not pivoted?
 
Seth C. said:
...if one defines BHE the way that you defined it it your initial post (“Back Hand English means applying side spin by pivoting the cue at the bridge, moving just the back (grip) hand sideways,” then pivoting is happening after getting into your (center CB) stance but before stroking.
Click to expand...
You're probably reading that into the part about "moving just the back (grip) hand". That doesn't mean the entire stance must be fixed before pivoting, only the bridge hand (which defines the "BHE pivot").

pj
chgo
 
Seth C. said:
Well, if one defines BHE the way that you defined it it your initial post (“Back Hand English means applying side spin by pivoting the cue at the bridge, moving just the back (grip) hand sideways,” then pivoting is happening after getting into your (center CB) stance but before stroking. And isn’t that really the point of BHE (like it or not, use it or not) - that you can line up a shot as if you were going to use no side spin and then pivot your back however much you’d like (up to the miscue limit) and be able to trust that the OB will go where it would have gone had you stayed center ball and not pivoted?
Click to expand...

I know you asked Patrick but everything has its limits so to continue success
you'll have to make allowances at some point depending on your stroke speed and
distance from the Cue Ball to the Object Ball. Depending on what I want to do with the
Cue Ball depends on what kind of Side Spin technique and allowance I use. It would be
nice if all you had to do was aim as if Center Ball and let it rip but not in my experience. .
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top