I’m not arguing with either of you about the fact that BHE has limitations. Nor about the importance of bringing all the tools of the toolbox to bear. I agree. I merely pointed out that one of the drawbacks of BHE (as classically defined, and as originally defined by pj) is that your stroke will not be moving down the (all else being equal) preferred, natural path.
BHE - Not An Exact Science
- Thread starter Patrick Johnson
- Start date
I’m not arguing with either of you about the fact that BHE has limitations. Nor about the importance of bringing all the tools of the toolbox to bear. I agree. I merely pointed out that one of the drawbacks of BHE (as classically defined, and as originally defined by pj) is that your stroke will not be moving down the (all else being equal) preferred, natural path.
without going over every detail, as it applies to actual play I think I do this when I need side spin and the OB is close to a pocket.
Yes I definitely see what you’re saying. I played a guy once who used BHE and moved his entire body rather than just his hand or arm when pivoting. It looked terrible but kind of made sense to address what you’re saying. I guess the stance would still be off a little, but your body-arm relationship would be constant.
By natural stroke line, you mean the one that deflects out of spec? Seems to me you're arguing the semantics of two identical and hypothetical shots.
Imagine a dead straight shot. Get down on the shot with the intention of hitting the OB in the middle of the pocket by stroking through the middle of the OB (vertical axis). And do this by taking your normal stance that allows you to stroke the cue by holding it very lightly in your fingers and stroke the CB without any tension. That’s what I mean by natural stroke line. It seems to me that if you then move your back hand to one side, and then stroke the cue along the line that it is pointing after you moved your back hand to the side, you are no longer in what golfers call “the slot.”
BHE is not for every shot, it is another technique, or tool, in a bag of tricks.
Agree. As another poster previously wrote, I think it is a tool best suited for short shots.
Yes I get what you're saying. You're also now describing some hypothetically ideal cue delivery. Seems to me, however the cue gets to the shot, it only shoots the one and the same shot. (?)
Sorry Robin, I'm not quite sure what you mean?
straightline - Based on your screen name, I’d think that you could fully relate to what I’m saying (!), which is simply that it is unnatural/awkward to stroke sideways. Now, of course the word “sideways” is a word of exaggeration. But if I’ve come to agree with one truism in the world of pool instruction, it is that even the slightest of deviations from what is comfortable and grooved can cause a miss. So, whenever possible (a great George Fels expression), I think it advisable to not move your back hand to the side and stroke across your natural stroke line.
yes you are correct, but theres no BHE police that i know of that will shame me for that... at least not yet hahaha
if you must, just lay the cue on the table, reset your body and pick up the cue? i dont know, its accurate enough for me as i just need to get a feel for the offset needed. i'm not a machine so i'd be lying if i said i could do everything perfect everytime – bridge distance exactly 14 inches, cue elevation exactly 4 degrees etc – to worry about not getting the offset correct to within 0.5 degrees that kind of thing. it gets me in the ballpark, practice/repetition takes care of the rest.
Gotta differ here. The slightest deviation from _the shot_will result in a shot different than intended. I chose the sn straightline because, correct, that's mostly what pool is. If you want to know my actual method, nobody here has the time or bother. Suffice it to say, backhand english will ballpark the shot in a very stable and reliable way. And to include your ideal no tension delivery, (a part of most things technical that I agree with) a lot of that looseness is to allow the cue to swing where you push it. It's not that big of a deal to poke straight ahead or poke 5 degrees off center - especially in cases like BHE where it works so well. And were still talking about the same thing. You hit the shot perfect, I hit the shot perfect, Isaac Newton had no objections.
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Fair enough.
All good. Helps me to hear other perspectives. Thanks.
You mean as you misread my description and misconstrued the “classical definition”. As I’ve pointed out to you, the definition of BHE doesn’t include how you move your grip hand or what you do with your body - it only specifies that the bridge hand remains on the shot line.
pj
chgo
pj, I accepted that you have explained in further detail what you mean by BHE, and I wasn’t coming at you. Note that I said “as originally defined” by you. If you go back to your original post, you will see that your first sentence reads, “ Back Hand English means applying side spin by pivoting the cue at the bridge, moving just the back (grip) hand sideways.” As for a classical definition, I withdraw the word and the notion of a classical definition. Being honest, I can’t claim to know if there is a classical definition or, if there is one, what it is. I had in mind Dr. Dave’s demonstrations of moving only the back hand, sideways.
Signing off this thread. Not interested in contentiousness.
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actually compared to other threads of this nature, this one hasn't gone off the rails by page 2..