Big Orange Classic a classic ripoff

Bob Romano said:
100% Payback... The money has to come from some place to pay everything. You cannot expect for the promoters who DO NOT have cash sponsorships to be able to bring to you a 100% payback event. It's impossible. You cannot expect for the promoter to pay for all of the things I just mentioned out of pocket. I hope that some of you can understand this. We are working extremely hard to promote the sport with great hotel rates, food and beverage specials, and other fun things for you to participate. We do our very best with the payouts and the money that is available. With continued support and trust from this industry, we hope to continue to bring you these events.


Eydie

Interesting reading to see all of your expenses. However, I feel that ANY tournament that doesn't offer 100% payback is the wrong kind of tournament. Players should avoid these events (they have expenses too, you know). Events like yours are nothing more than cold-blooded attempts to take money from players who don't know any better. That's why you hold them on bar tables (just like APA, VNEA etc.), because you want to prey on the 'amateur' type of player, those who think that any event they can play in and win money at is just terrific. Truth be told, you're exploiting them.

Any major tournament should offer a full accounting of all moneys taken in and paid out and make that available for all to see on a website or financial audit. That's how you get trust.
 
All this ranting from a guy who doesn't know the difference between GUARANTEED and ADDED. Stay out of Breaker's. I'm sure you will not be missed.
 
Dino Disease.. Has your psychiatrist ever mentioned to you the personally trade "Sociopath" Fits you to a tee. From your posts you wont be missed anywhere.
 
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Busy Kitty said:
Dino Disease.. Has your psychiatrist ever mentioned to you the personally trade "Sociopath" Fits you to a tee. From your posts you wont be missed anywhere.

You guys are crazy. Apparently you like it when you get screwed. I guess you fit right in to the pool world then. Enjoy.
 
dinovirus said:
You guys are crazy. Apparently you like it when you get screwed. I guess you fit right in to the pool world then. Enjoy.

Did you even place in the money?
If you did, i am sure you were smart enough to buy yourself in the calcutta.
 
BazookaJoe said:
Did you even place in the money?
If you did, i am sure you were smart enough to buy yourself in the calcutta.

I fail to see the relevance. I'm equally as annoyed by poor payouts regardless of whether I finish first or last.

Can I tell the difference between 'added' and 'guaranteed'? Sure I can. But I think my point was that I shouldn't have to.

Speaking of guarantees, I can make a guarantee that everyone who played in the tournament who is any kind of a player, from first to last place, was pissed about the payouts.

I'm amazed by the people on this website. I thought you cared about the game. Don't you realize that a lousy tournament does the game more harm than good?
 
I don't usually reply to the posts that I read, but I feel this one is definitely worth the time. I had no idea what it takes to promote a national tournament, but I respect anyone that chooses to spend their precious time and money for the sake of pool. Eydie, although I didnt attend the Midwest Expo, my thanks and appreciation goes out to everyone involved in promoting it and every other pool tourney ever held. Without you people, this game would be practically extinct.

Sincerely,
Christyd
 
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Eydie, thanks for a great post. I knew it took alot to put on a tournament like that, but some of those expenses never even occured to me.

Thanks for all the hard work, I had planned to go to your tournament this year but things fell through, I will make an extra effort to go next year if you are still putting it on!
 
Quote Dino "Can I tell the difference between 'added' and 'guaranteed'? Sure I can. But I think my point was that I shouldn't have to. "

Now that makes absolutely no sense at all.

Jake
 
Dino,

You remind me of my old "friend" manlyshot. Regardless of how the real world of pool and the UPA was explained to him, he went back to the same tired complaint. You appear to do the same thing. When I travelled, one of the first things we did was add up all the money in the prize fund and see how it was returned. Second, we added the player auction to see how much went to the person running the auction. If something wasn't right, we went to the TD immediately. If we weren't satisfied, we just didn't go back! You have the right to question. I want to know why you are questioning?

In case I missed something, doesn't America run on "for profit" businesses? When did profit earn such a nasty name? I want the tournament promoter to make a living. When they stop, our events stop. If you think they should do this for free, you really are dreaming! In Chicago, I risked a forty dollar entry fee to possibly win about $2000. I like that. Even if it were $1000, it would be OK.

Here is my suggestion. Call Bob and Eydie Romano. Volunteer to help them organize and run one of their major events. If you think they or any other promoters are robbing pool players after that, my guess is that every player on this forum would join you in your protestations.
 
Thanks all for your support. I know that you all understand how a business runs.

As for you Dinovirus... I just can't believe that you would be so blind sighted. From what I understand that you are saying, is that I should do all this work (for you) and not receive one dime for my efforts.

That makes me feel so warm and cuddly inside!

Eydie
 
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DawgAndy said:
... I can't feel sorry for them... Yeah it's a shame you can't make a living doing what you love but thats life.

Andy

Point well made. I've 2 sons that are really great artists, I'd certainly rate the caliber of their art with the quality of the pool played by pros. One of them drives a cab and one of them is unemployed but is looking to paint (not art) house interiours. They have crap jobs, but the do it so they can do what they love. Maybe some day pool will make it as a big sport, but frankly I doubt it and the people who love it enough will continue to play it and do what they need to to survive.
 
Bob Romano said:
Thanks all for your support. I know that you all understand how a business runs.

As for you Dinovirus... I just can't believe that you would be so blind sighted. From what I understand that you are saying, is that I should do all this work (for you) and not receive one dime for my efforts.

That makes me feel so warm and cuddly inside!

Eydie

The work is hardly done 'for me' if I'm the one paying your bills.

Here's the thing - I think you should make all the money you can - I just don't think you should make it from the players. Of course, to be fair, you're entitled to make a buck any way you can, and since your tournaments cater to 'amateur' players, what the hell. I suppose it's no different than big softball tournaments or bowling leagues where the object of the exercise for the organizers is to make money. However, it's a short-sighted way to look at event promotion.

I stand by the statement that players should avoid tournaments that don't offer 100% payback. It's more than possible to hold such events and still make money, you just have to do it right. Look at the US Open golf tournament. The entry fee is about $150 if I remember correctly (top players are exempt from this). First prize meanwhile is around $1.2 million. I think they had on order of 4000 entries last year, which works out to about $600,000 raised by entries. Well, that's a far cry from first prize, and never mind the other $18 million in the prize fund. Where does the rest come from? Well from TV rights, sponsorship, merchandising, admissions, concessions, and parking (and probably in that order). Now THAT's a tournament.

Naturally, golf is a LOT bigger than pool, and the USGA has been running their events for more than 100 years, so they've worked a lot of the kinks out. But, there's lots of ways to make money as a pool promoter without taking it from the players. Hell, Matt Braun makes money with his events (challenge of champions, trick shot magic, etc.) with only 8 players and one table and even pays all the players $1500 just to attend. They're all garbage events from a pool point of view, and Matt takes the lion's share of the money they generate, but they do make money.

Remember, bigger is not necessarily better, and you can make far more money from the AUDIENCE than you can ever make from the players. Do it right and you can make three times the money with half the effort and 1/10th of the initial outlay. You just need to be creative.
 
dinovirus said:
64 players showed up - the entry fee was $75 - that totals $4800, but there was only $5100 in the total purse. Thus the house ended up adding $300 to the tournament prize fund.QUOTE]

Wow, this sure sounds like 100% payback
and then some
 
Interesting perspective. Although I am still baffled that you feel that I should pay for all of the expenses for the event just so you can pay. I should just do it out of the goodness of my heart and hope for a friendly thanks as my reward :confused:

I got an idea, why don't you give it a shot, I'll be the first person to sign up to play (even though don't play). Get a feel for what it takes to promote this kind of venue and then we'll see what you have to say.

Or, you can help promote any of the events we have at no salary, since you feel that we should not get paid. You can do it out of the goodness of your heart. Now remember that it takes months of work to make it successful but don't worry you can use your savings to support yourself and what's left over you can use it as guaranteed added money for the event.

:rolleyes:
 
dinovirus said:
Hell, Matt Braun makes money with his events (challenge of champions, trick shot magic, etc.) with only 8 players and one table and even pays all the players $1500 just to attend. They're all garbage events from a pool point of view, and Matt takes the lion's share of the money they generate, but they do make money.

Dino, you must be joking! You want to compare a made for TV event to the real world? An eight player event to one with hundreds, if not thousands of entries. Events where a casino puts up money in lieu of promotional slots. This guy has virtually no up front costs. ESPN and the casinos take care of everything financially. Bob and Eydie, Allen and Dawn, et al, have real costs to running an event. Without TV income. Without casino underwriting. Are you manlyshot with a different log in name?

dinovirus said:
Remember, bigger is not necessarily better, and you can make far more money from the AUDIENCE than you can ever make from the players. Do it right and you can make three times the money with half the effort and 1/10th of the initial outlay. You just need to be creative.

Wow, if promoting events was just that easy! Dino, what are your credentials to offer that kind of wisdom? I know Bob and Eydie. They just love spending all their money and time to promote an event that you want them not to make money on. Wow, what a country, what a sport!
 
Bob Romano said:
Interesting perspective. Although I am still baffled that you feel that I should pay for all of the expenses for the event just so you can pay. I should just do it out of the goodness of my heart and hope for a friendly thanks as my reward :confused:

I got an idea, why don't you give it a shot, I'll be the first person to sign up to play (even though don't play). Get a feel for what it takes to promote this kind of venue and then we'll see what you have to say.

Or, you can help promote any of the events we have at no salary, since you feel that we should not get paid. You can do it out of the goodness of your heart. Now remember that it takes months of work to make it successful but don't worry you can use your savings to support yourself and what's left over you can use it as guaranteed added money for the event.

:rolleyes:

I don't think you read my entire post. What I actually said was that there's plenty of ways to make money without making it from the players. You can make a lot more too, and you're more than entitled to do so, provided you do it right. But you go ahead and keep grinding out those registration fees - it's noble work you're doing.

As for helping you, I'd actually be happy to - no money needed. Email me at dinovirus147@yahoo.com if you're serious. Can't give you a lot of time but I'd give you what I could.
 
I'm open to hearing your ways to make money without making it from the players.

Do keep in mind from the post I wrote about the retailers in the billiard industry being tapped out, in addition to the beer/liqour sponsors. Gone that way, did it, tried it.

Honestly, if you have ways to pay for this event I would absolutly LOVE to hear them.

Eydie
 
Dinovirus ~ I am looking forward to hearing your thoughts regarding making money without taking a registration fee.

Eydie Romano
 
Bob Romano said:
Dinovirus ~ I am looking forward to hearing your thoughts regarding making money without taking a registration fee.

Eydie Romano

You might have to change the entire nature of your event. Are you ready for that?

Think about it like you were hosting a big country music jamboree. How would you go about that? Where would you look to make money? How would you promote it? What kind of acts would you book? Think of a pool event in the same way. Think big.
 
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