Break box dimensions...

[EL Picos]

Hello, someone know the width of the new break box the 9 on the spot,
to define the width he places a line from the spot to the diamond on the rail, but should the line be taken in the center of the diamond on the rail or on the edge of the cushion opposite the diamond?
Thank You!

 

[TrxR]

Hello, someone know the width of the new break box the 9 on the spot,
to define the width he places a line from the spot to the diamond on the rail, but should the line be taken in the center of the diamond on the rail or on the edge of the cushion opposite the diamond?
Thank You!

This video does a quick explanation.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

to define the width he places a line from the spot to the diamond on the rail, but should the line be taken in the center of the diamond on the rail or on the edge of the cushion opposite the diamond?

I'm guessing he means to the diamond on the rail, but the difference is pretty tiny either way.

pj
chgo

 

[MitchAlsup]

As the drawing above illustrates::

a) diamond on the rail -- is the narrower distance.
b) diamond at the rail -- is the wider distance.

Although giving a figure or using more words would lessen the ability to misinterpret.

 

[Bob Jewett]

We discussed this not too long ago. I'm pretty sure the Matchroom spec is to the diamond on the rail. Here is a previous discussion:

2023 World Pool Championship, Kielce, Poland

The draw for the World Championship (9B) has been announced. I notice that Alex Pagulayan is not seeded. 11 players from the US including Joey Tate. 12 from Poland, the host country. SEED Name Name 1 Shane Van Boening (USA) VS Masato...

forums.azbilliards.com

The break box is 20000/1259 inches wide exactly. The distance of the diamonds from the nose of the cushion are specified in the WPA table specs.

That's 15.8856 inches, roughly. Or 40.349 centimeters.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

The break box is 20000/1259 inches wide exactly. The distance of the diamonds from the nose of the cushion are specified in the WPA table specs.

That's 15.8856 inches, roughly. Or 40.349 centimeters.

Which makes the distance from nose to diamond 3 11/16”?

pj <- checking my math
chgo

P.S. I looked up the WPA spec and it is 3 11/16”. Woohoo!

 

[EL Picos]

We discussed this not too long ago. I'm pretty sure the Matchroom spec is to the diamond on the rail. Here is a previous discussion:

2023 World Pool Championship, Kielce, Poland

The draw for the World Championship (9B) has been announced. I notice that Alex Pagulayan is not seeded. 11 players from the US including Joey Tate. 12 from Poland, the host country. SEED Name Name 1 Shane Van Boening (USA) VS Masato...

forums.azbilliards.com

The break box is 20000/1259 inches wide exactly. The distance of the diamonds from the nose of the cushion are specified in the WPA table specs.

That's 15.8856 inches, roughly. Or 40.349 centimeters.

Really interesting and useful to know the exact measurement of this box, we will be able to trace it by measuring directly on the break/start line, 15 7/8 inch will be the useful measurement to use. Thank you very much to everyone for your answers!

 

[hang-the-9]

I did the Matchroom break box at my local pool hall when I did some lines for the rack/break area.
Simple way to measure it, It's 1 and 1/3rd diamonds from the rail or 2/3rd of a diamond from the spot.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Simple way to measure it, It's 1 and 1/3rd diamonds from the rail or 2/3rd of a diamond from the spot.

And a simple way to visualize that is to recognize that the head string is 2/3 the distance from the foot spot to the head rail (so the lines from the spot to the diamonds on the head rail have widened by 2/3 of the total).

pj
chgo

 

[Bob Jewett]

.... Simple way to measure it, It's 1 and 1/3rd diamonds from the rail or 2/3rd of a diamond from the spot.

That would give a width of 16.667 inches on a nine-foot table. The width calculated above is 15.886 inches.

One way to think about it is that if you place the cue ball on the corner of the break box -- its center barely inside the marked area -- and the player shoots full at the 1 ball, the cue stick will be directly over the diamond on the head rail.

(Since players generally play a cut break to the "nearer" side of the 1 ball from the corner of the break box, it means that the cue stick will always pass over the head rail between diamonds 1 and 3.)

 

[EL Picos]

You can also take out the center of the table and measure 7 15/16 inches on each side of the center, this way you are sure to be perfect. On some tables that are old and have been reworked several times, the diamonds are not necessarily perfectly located, moreover when I place my spot lines, I do not use the diamonds, I center the spot in the center real of the table and in the center between the side pockets and the bottom rail.

 

[Bob Jewett]

... On some tables that are old and have been reworked several times, the diamonds are not necessarily perfectly located, ...

You might think it would be pretty hard to get the diamonds off much, but ...

A room I used to play in from time to time had a new carom table. It didn't appear to have any brand on it, so I guess it was made in a local shop, maybe in someone's basement. I took a few test shots and I noticed that the diamond system wasn't quite right. On closer inspection, I saw that each long rail had 8 diamonds.

 

[EL Picos]

given that the old reworked tables do not always have their precise 50 inch between the cushions and also because it goes very well and is very precise, I made myself a ruler with a piece of wood attached to one end, so I lean the piece of wood on the cushion on one side and then I make a line at the end of the ruler on the tape and then I do the same on the other side be the opposite cushion, in this way the perfect center of the table is between the 2 lines on the gummed paper, we can see the double line on the picture in the othe picture up, this picture is to show a perfect fine line well located, a must to put a stencil rack.

 

[EL Picos]

You might think it would be pretty hard to get the diamonds off much, but ...

A room I used to play in from time to time had a new carom table. It didn't appear to have any brand on it, so I guess it was made in a local shop, maybe in someone's basement. I took a few test shots and I noticed that the diamond system wasn't quite right. On closer inspection, I saw that each long rail had 8 diamonds.

What sometimes happens is that the rails that have been reworked are not all the same width, which thereby changes the internal dimensions of the tables and thereby the validity of the location of the diamonds if a rail is widen than his opposed one, there are everything on the old tables that have been reworked by one and the other, it is not necessarily a big distance but when you want perfection or almost, it is better to refer to the real playing surface between the cushions.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Simple way to measure it, It's 1 and 1/3rd diamonds from the rail or 2/3rd of a diamond from the spot.

That would give a width of 16.667 inches on a nine-foot table. The width calculated above is 15.886 inches.

16.667" is the result using lines drawn from the foot spot to the head rail nose (instead of to the head rail diamonds).

pj
chgo

 

[hang-the-9]

That would give a width of 16.667 inches on a nine-foot table. The width calculated above is 15.886 inches.

One way to think about it is that if you place the cue ball on the corner of the break box -- its center barely inside the marked area -- and the player shoots full at the 1 ball, the cue stick will be directly over the diamond on the head rail.

(Since players generally play a cut break to the "nearer" side of the 1 ball from the corner of the break box, it means that the cue stick will always pass over the head rail between diamonds 1 and 3.)

So they are not using the exact diamond measurement layout? When I was looking at the layout on video and pictures it looked exactly 2/3rd the distance. I'm still keeping it my way on the tables at my pool room though, it makes the math easier LOL

 

[Bob Jewett]

So they are not using the exact diamond measurement layout? ...

From the diagram that is from Matchroom, it looks like they are using the diamond on the rail, not the 12.5 inches along the nose of the rail. In a table situation, it is very easy to run a string from the diamond to the spot and see where it crosses the headstring. No ruler required.

 

[hang-the-9]

From the diagram that is from Matchroom, it looks like they are using the diamond on the rail, not the 12.5 inches along the nose of the rail. In a table situation, it is very easy to run a string from the diamond to the spot and see where it crosses the headstring. No ruler required.

I thought the diamond measuring was not very exact since there is some variance in where they are placed table to table and brand to brand? I measured out the head and foot string and the spots on my local pool hall table, and all were off by a decent margin. Don't think they were well measured, or they used the diamonds not the cushion measuring.

 

[EL Picos]

I thought the diamond measuring was not very exact since there is some variance in where they are placed table to table and brand to brand? I measured out the head and foot string and the spots on my local pool hall table, and all were off by a decent margin. Don't think they were well measured, or they used the diamonds not the cushion measuring.

Cushion measuring is the best for all because it's the real thing, you split the wide in 2 to find the perfect center. If you take the diamond to put the spotting point and after that you measure with cushion and the is 1/16 offset what is the best thing to do, just amator will run with the diamond,and it's so easy to understand that!

 

[EL Picos]

When I place the spotting points, I always use just half of the table to measure and not the total length, why, because when breaking the balls which are of primary importance are the 1 in the side pocket and the 2 balls behind the 1, also in the side pocket in the game of 10, in the 9 it is the 1 in the side and the wing balls. So the most accurate for that is to use just half of the table where the racking must be done. We can say that there may not be a big difference if we used the entire length of the table, but it is still the best principle for the effectiveness of the break. I made it my personal choice.